The RDtoCEO Podcast
Dive into The RDtoCEO Podcast, hosted by Registered Dietitian and CEO, Eva Haldis, where she shares her journey in entrepreneurship, with discussions on the basics on building a private practice and becoming a confident CEO. The RDtoCEO Podcast is your go-to resource for mastering the art of transitioning from a dietitian to a successful CEO.
The RDtoCEO Podcast
Revolutionizing Your Practice Through Supervision & Mentorship ft. Heather Rudalavage RD, LDN
This episode dives deep into the value of clinical supervision for dietitians, exploring its impact on professional growth and client care, featuring today's guest, Heather Rudalavage. Heather shares insights from her extensive experience and discusses how supervision fosters confidence, supports practitioners in challenging situations, and ultimately improves client outcomes.
Some topics covered:
• Defining clinical supervision and its significance for dietitians
• The dual role of mentorship and support in supervision
• Enhancing counseling skills and tackling biases through supervision
• Addressing the complexities of eating disorders in practice
• The investment perspective: how supervision improves business outcomes
• Heather’s unique offer for free supervision sessions
• Closing thoughts on the future of supervision in dietetics
Heather is also offering an exciting opportunity for RDtoCEO Listeners! If you are interested in exploring whether supervision is right for you, Heather is now offering a free 45 supervision to the first 3 people who message her on Instagram and say RDtoCEO Supervision!
More About Heather:
Heather is a weight inclusive registered dietitian in the Philadelphia area. She is a certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Certified Body Trust Coach. She is founder of Intuitive Nutrition a private practice where she has been helping women achieve their health goals with compassion, empathy and a dash of humor for over 15 years. She is a mom to 3, enjoys spending time outdoors, reading, knitting and traveling. She has visited over 20 countries. She is also working on writing her first novel, stay tuned!
Where to find Heather:
https://www.intuitive-nutrition.com
https://www.instagram.com/antidiet.heather
Want a question answered on the podcast? Send me a message, or a text message, and maybe it'll be featured in an episode!
You can send me a message on IG -
https://www.instagram.com/evahaldis_rd or https://www.instagram.com/rdtoceo
Find more about RDtoCEO at https://www.rdtoceo.com
For episode updates and coaching packages, check out our website - www.rdtoceo.com
Affiliate Links Often Mentioned:
Gusto for Payroll - https://gusto.com/h/eva6486
Practice Better- https://practicebetter.partnerlinks.io/evahaldis9298
*Please note that while we strive to provide valuable insights, our podcast is not a replacement for personalized legal or financial counsel. We strongly advise consulting with qualified professionals for specific advice tailored to your individual circumstances.*
Welcome to the RD to CEO podcast. I'm your host, eva Haldis, registered dietitian, who one day found herself a whole CEO of a business. Join me as we navigate the world of entrepreneurship so you can go from being an RD who sees clients in private practice to a confident CEO growing the practice of your dreams.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the RD to CEO podcast.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone. It is great to be back recording on the podcast. If you can't tell by the sound of my voice if this is your first time tuning in, it's not usually what I sound like, but I am recovering from the flu. My family got hit with the flu last week and boy that was rough. So I'm very happy to be on the mend and back to setting out a new podcast episode and I'm really excited about today's episode.
Speaker 1:I have a dear friend and colleague, heather Rulovic, on, and we are talking about supervision. I see supervision talked about a lot, or at least suggested often in different Facebook groups. I'm in for dietitians and I think if you're not familiar with what the term supervision is in this context, it can be kind of confusing because you're like are you talking about somebody who's in charge, like my supervisor? And here what we're really talking about is clinical supervision, and Heather and I have a great conversation about it and why it's helpful, just as developing your skills as a clinician, but also how that relates back to business growth, and so I'm really excited to share this with you. If you don't know Heather, she's a weight-inclusive registered dietitian in the Philadelphia area. She is a certified intuitive eating counselor and certified body trust coach. She's founder of Intuitive Nutrition, a private practice where she has been helping women achieve their health goals with compassion, empathy and a dash of humor for over 15 years. She's a mom to three, enjoys spending time outdoors, reading, knitting and traveling, and she's visited over 20 countries. She's also working on her first novel, so stay tuned for that. Enjoys spending time outdoors, reading, knitting and traveling, and she's visited over 20 countries. She's also working on her first novel, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1:And Heather has a very exciting offer to listeners of the podcast. So if you hear this podcast, you're like, wow, I would love to try supervision. Heather is offering a free supervision session for the first three people that DM her and say RD to CEO supervision. I will link her social media in the show notes, but her Instagram account is anti-dietheather. So if you message her there and say RD to CEO supervision, she will offer you a free supervision session and I definitely would encourage people to reach out because one that's such a great deal because, as you'll learn, supervision is something you have to pay for. So getting to see and get a feel for Heather's style would be, I think, one an awesome opportunity, but two if you're getting a style for how you feel doing supervision, if it feels like it would be something that'd be helpful for you. So I definitely encourage you to check her out and her website, and all that will be linked in the show notes.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I'm going to keep this kind of brief, more so because my voice is not in tip-top shape and I'm about to start coughing. So, without further ado, let's get into today's episode with Heather. Hi, everyone, welcome back to another episode. I'm so excited to welcome Heather to the podcast today. Hi, heather, thanks for being here. Welcome to the RD to CO podcast. Thanks so much. I'm super happy to be here. I'm really excited to talk to you today about supervision because it's something that's a big part of my practice as well, with my team, and something I've done for many years too. But I find that a lot of dietitians aren't as familiar with what it actually is in the context we're going to be talking about today. So I'm really excited to dive. You share, heather and I obviously know each other. We actually know each other because we're very local to the same area outside of Philadelphia, but I'd love if you could share a little more about your story to the listeners here on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I graduated a long time ago I've been in the field for about 25 years and first started out in clinical and did that for a few years and then ended up just kind of leaving the field for a little bit and having kids and staying home with my kids. I have three kids who are now young adults, and when my youngest was maybe three or four, I thought, well, I guess I should probably go back into the field, and so that's when I decided to, you know, start a private practice. I don't know why I thought this, but I thought that it would be something that I would do for myself and I figured I wasn't really making an income at all as a stay-at-home mom. And so I thought, well, this is just a way for me to, whatever I make will be great. And so that's what I started in private practice.
Speaker 2:And it was not long after that, actually, I Googled the name that I wanted to name my practice, and that's when I discovered the intuitive eating book and read the book and was so excited, just like hear the concept. It was the first time I'd heard the concept. And so we're talking maybe 15 years ago, and emailed Evelyn and Elise and they got back to me and I was. I missed their initial cohort but it was recorded and I was able to sort of listen to the recordings and become a certified intuitive eating counselor. So I've been doing that ever since and so, yeah, I've been in private practice doing intuitive eating health at every size for the last 15 or so years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny to think back because even when I first started in my dietetics sort of career and learning about alternative approaches to helping folks with their relationship to food and learning about intuitive eating folks with their relationship to food and learning about intuitive eating, even for me, which was like now I mean, when was that? Like 2013, maybe like 10 years ago, but even then it was like so there was barely anything out there about it and it's it's funny now to see it because it's such a popularized term and things people know about and often misconstrued on the internet. But, yes, yes, you know for you to be one of the like oh gee, original people to use it and it's pretty, pretty cool too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and early on it was difficult because it was so unknown and I really struggled with knowing what to put on my website and what verbiage to use and what wording, and I always I always sort of struggled with that. Of course, our field is so, or was for a very long time, traditionally weight-centric, and so I think I thought, well, how am I ever going to get a client that is going to be okay with looking at health in a different way or not wanting to be in a smaller body which of course, I still get many clients that want to be in a smaller body and we can certainly, course, I still get many clients that want to be in a smaller body and we can certainly hold space for that. But I always tell them but that's not going to be the focus of our work together.
Speaker 1:And I think that's actually, you know, you saying kind of like not sure how to like talk about it on your website or explain it to people, especially being that it was still such an early concept. I think this is actually a really great segue into us talking about what we're going to be talking about today. With supervision because I think one especially when it's a new concept whether it's newer in the public or new to you as a clinician it can be really hard to like learn how to use it in your day-to-day practice. You know, when we're interns, we of course have preceptors and dietitians that we work with. That can help us sort of learn. But then after that you know you're pretty much on your own, unless you know you work at a hospital. But that's going to be very different.
Speaker 1:Once you're kind of in that outpatient world and doing private practice, it's like you kind of have to like figure out yourself, which I think is what a lot of people do, or they kind of maybe learn from webinars and things like that. But once I was introduced to the concept of supervision, I think that is what really changed the game for me, because that's really where I was able to learn how do I use this? How do I use this language? How do I explain this to people? What do I do with this situation? And so I think that's a good, almost intro into, or segue into, what we're going to be talking about today, and I guess, probably for us, because we both know what supervision is. I think when I talk to newer dietitians, or even dietitians, maybe that I'm interviewing for my practice, I'll always ask have you heard of supervision before? So I'd love to hear your definition as well. What is it? What are we talking about? You know, when we say supervision in this context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, as I was saying just before we started recording, I don't actually love the term supervision. I know that it's a term sort of well known to therapists, but I personally don't really like it, because maybe I'm old school but I sort of see it as this boss right that I'm like a supervisor. But I think for dietitians what it really is or could be is sort of part mentor, part coach, part fresh perspective or just having that older, wiser, gravitas, you know, kind of experiences that you can go to and sort of say, hey, this came up in session or this is what I said. Does that sound right or does you know, could I have said it better? And so that's kind of how I see it.
Speaker 2:But it's also, I don't know, a safe space. I don't know if you feel this way, eva, but like a safe space to explore your own bias or just refine skills. And that can be scary, to sort of be afraid that someone's going to see these knowledge gaps and sort of you know, judge you for those knowledge gaps. But we can show up more confidently, I think, if we kind of have that sort of backing of someone else who can say, yeah, you're on the right track here with this person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So it's kind of like you're like saying, like kind of going to see somebody who and I agree with you on the term, because I think that also just makes it sound confusing because then it's like I'm like your supervisor and it's taken, I guess, probably from the therapy world where in order to become licensed and I think a lot of the therapist license options out there they do have to have a supervisor who kind of signs off on things and then they're, I believe, required to continue supervision. So obviously in the dietetic world it's not something that is required of us for our licenses. No-transcript, called counter-transference.
Speaker 1:And, like you know, sometimes I have clients. I'm like I almost identify with them a little bit too much and I feel like my own stuff's coming up a little bit and we have to sort of hold back. And I think the space to go to sort of talk through that is in supervision. And also, yeah, like when we're early on learning how to work with some of these models, having a supervisor who has more experience, who's done it before, who's seen cases like yours before, can be just so helpful. It's just like a learning space, a validating space. And, yeah, I credit it with like how I learned how to be a good clinician.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I think it's so helpful to help with those counseling skills, particularly if you're new to private practice.
Speaker 2:I mean, for me I was in clinical a very long time ago but I remember it sort of feeling like you know, mrs Jones is being discharged and we sort of run in and give Mrs Jones a cardiac diet and off she goes and we never see her again, when, of course, with private practice, a big part of it is building that relationship, having your clients want to come back, you know, sort of over the long term, because this work of course is, it takes a long time to unlearn diet culture.
Speaker 2:But even if you don't work specifically with eating disorders and I think this was something for me early on in private practice I would have probably not thought I needed supervision because I thought, well, I don't work with eating disorders, and yet eating disorders showed up in my office because whether it was someone who thought that they had recovered completely from an eating disorder or doesn't even recognize that they have an eating disorder, you think you're just going to be giving this person a meal plan or you know talking about, you know I don't know carbohydrate exchanging and then suddenly you know body image or diet culture like I'm not going to eat carbs ever is showing up in session and that can be really can kind of catch you off guard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think too, especially too, especially. I think that's such a good point to make too. It's not just, it shouldn't just be for, for you know folks who treat eating disorders, but oftentimes there is that that comes up and maybe somebody came to you and I see this a lot in facebook groups where dietitians will post like I have this client who all of a sudden disclosed that they're like struggling with eating disorder, I don't know what to do, and the comments are either like refer them out or get supervision on it. And it can be hard, like if you're a dietitian who maybe lives in maybe an area that there aren't a lot of dietitians in the area, or you know that also has very strict licensing laws, so maybe, like folks who have more experience can't meet that person virtually. Maybe you have a good, established rapport with that person and it may be hard to say, well, why don't you go see this other dietitian?
Speaker 1:That person might be like, no, I'm not going to do that, and so if there's the desire to want to maybe learn more, supervision can be such an awesome way to say like, okay, how can I work with this client? What are the things that I need to be looking out for and how do I maybe learn to support them through this to the best of my ability. And it's not that we're saying you should do things out of your scope of knowledge and practice, but going to supervision and saying, can I, as somebody who's experienced with this, is this something that I can work with? What should I do? Could be just a really great place to just like talk through all those things too, because, yeah, you can feel pretty stuck, I think, in those situations if you're not sort of professional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, I think all of us, I mean certainly been doing this a long time and I think I learned early on that it's not about the food, right, it would be lovely if it was really just about me having all of this wonderful you know, knowledge on healthy foods and just sort of spewing it out to the person across from me, and then they just went home and did that and we were like robots or something.
Speaker 2:But of course food is so deep, you know, and so what shows up in our offices or on our Zoom sessions is trauma a lot of times, right, and so even if you weren't thinking that was going to show up that day, that's what clients can, so much, and we certainly don't want to cause harm.
Speaker 2:And I think in our current world it's so easy to do, it's so easy to collude with someone's eating disorder sort of inadvertently, or we can sort of let our own weight bias lead a conversation, especially with someone in a marginalized body, and we can cause unintentional harm or even trauma, and so I don't think any dietitian wants to do that. And so supervision and, like you said, eva, like if someone is in part of the country where there isn't a lot of eating disorder dietitians. I mean, we live in the Philadelphia area so of course there is plenty, plenty of dietitians that do that work. But there are places where, like maybe you take insurance and all of the eating disorder dietitians don't take insurance, and so you have this client and I would say if it's not a quote, unquote, raging you know eating disorder, that there's probably a good chance you could kind of work with someone through it if you have supervision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think too, even just sometimes the space to have you know somebody else almost give you like the language on how to say things or ask, especially if it's not something that you're experienced in working with. So in this context that we're talking about with, like if somebody doesn't have experience maybe you work with eating disorders and then all of a sudden their client sort of opens up about something how do we say certain things and ask certain questions, which a lot of it's going to always be? You know, there's a little trial and error. I always say, like sometimes I'll say things or analogies. I'm like that didn't land, I'm not going to say that again, and sometimes they're like this made a lot of sense, we're going to keep that one.
Speaker 1:But there's also things that we don't know to ask sometimes, when we're obviously not experienced. And so having somebody who can say, okay, have you checked this or done this yet? Or when was the last time they went to their doctors and got these labs, all these kinds of things that maybe we wouldn't know, which you can certainly, of course, google and look at research, but it's really those tangible clinical counseling skills that once we're out of schooling and once we're out of the internship in an outpatient setting. I mean, where are you going to get that really tailored to you as well? So it's not just like a webinar that you're watching and it's like there are things you can try. It's like okay, well, I said that my client still is engaging in their you know these behaviors whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:Right. Or I see, like so often too, same thing, like Facebook threads too, where people say, how do I get my clients to schedule a follow-up? Like we're out of things to talk about. And that is always so surprising to me because I always think, well, if with motivational interviewing or with like leading right, so you want to say things like, well, what's showing up for you? Like if every time you ask what's showing up for you, you're never going to run out of things to talk about, and I think sometimes, as a dietitian, you can be worried about opening Pandora's box and thinking, well, gosh, if I open this box and trauma comes out, what will I do with that? And I think, again, having supervision and like for me, supervision has really helped me to be more confident opening Pandora's box, and I think that leads to such like stronger sessions with clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And coming back to something you said earlier, we say, you know, I always say it's like not about the food. I say the same thing to people, like on the phone when they're booking with us, like it's about the food and it's not about the food, and so, like our work is really getting underneath. You know, maybe we're talking about you eating more carbs at breakfast and then when you come back the next session, you're like, well, I couldn't do that. Okay, well, what came up for you, what's showing up for you?
Speaker 1:And I agree, I find that, like newer clinicians who are like I don't know what else to talk about, I'm like, yes, because, right, we're also taught. We're taught motivational interviewing kind of barely, and we have no practice after that. And also we're taught to be the fixers. So here's, here's the thing, the issue, and we're going to fix it and to really have a long-term you know relationship with a client and also really help them make change. It's much more you know. It's much less like here's what you need to do, and more so of like what's coming up for you that's preventing you from doing this thing? So inherent, you know, like feeding ourselves, and it can be hard to know, like, well, what am I supposed to say? Right, and yes, what if something comes up that I don't know what I'm supposed to say with that? And that's really where supervision is has been for me to like, just so so helpful in teaching me has been for me too, like just so, so helpful in teaching me Right.
Speaker 2:Because, again, in our internships, unless you had like an outpatient sort of focused internship or had lots of experience in that, or if you worked in clinical, you're never saying to Ms Jones, who's on her way out the door, like, oh, what's coming up for you, Ms Jones, when I've, you know, shared this cardiac diet with you, or where did you first hear that you know? And so that is like the big difference I think in private practice is really that relationship building and that trust, where sometimes for me we may not be talking much about nutrition at all until maybe the second or even the third visit because we're just building that rapport and trust. And I think, too, so many of my patients come to me with lots of medical provider trauma and particularly if there's somebody in a bigger body, and so they're so worried about judgment, and so I think, yeah, I think having those conversations and building that rapport are really, it's really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think in the context of like this podcast, which is supposed to be a business podcast, and obviously I think supervision is, I think, as like personally, it's been so transformative for me and I see how it helps and transforms my clinicians that work on our team and so just from like the personal and like professional parts, like that's really been such a huge part of just my growth. But also, if we do want to look at it from a business perspective and I always want to say like I don't want to think about our clients as like business it feels icky and we all have a, and that's why I'm probably listening to this podcast you know, the thing that really helps with having a consistent caseload is retaining clients and seeing them long term, and we all know this. I mean, I think, even across the like weight centric versus weight neutral spheres of dietetics, like we know, change doesn't happen overnight and we can't just meet somebody one day. Some of the insurance companies that we accept in Pennsylvania cover like six sessions. I'm like, what am I supposed to do in six sessions with somebody? There's so much more to it.
Speaker 1:Once again, coming back to this, it's about the food and not about the food. Learning these skills can really help to make our clients just feel like they can develop that relationship, that trusting space, and helps us retain clients, which ultimately is good for business. Because a lot of times we're like marketing and marketing and I'm like, yes, marketing is important, getting new clients is important, but also, what are we doing to keep the clients we have, the people that we're already working with? We want them to feel like they're supported the clients.
Speaker 2:We have, the people that we're already working with. We want them to feel like they're supported. Yeah, it's much easier to keep the clients you have sort of coming back, as opposed to constantly finding new clients, because they only come for two sessions and then they feel like they got what they needed and they're on their way and like you're right, even if you're not working in the haze or the intuitive eating, you know realms. I think body image is huge and I think that's a place where dietitians could have a really big impact. And yeah, I think too.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes I remember well, I remember it both ways, for me too, because I was in a small body early in my career and now I'm in a larger body. So I've been on both sides where I've been much smaller than the client, and sometimes that can be uncomfortable. And of course, weight bias comes in there when, especially when I was in a much smaller, privileged body, and now sometimes I'm larger than some of my clients who want to lose weight or are having issues with body image, and so I think, again, supervision can even help with that too.
Speaker 1:For some of your own stuff, let's just say yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that point up because it can feel really hard. I've had that conversation in supervision myself too. Like I'm in a smaller body, I'm in a privileged body. How, how can I sit here and tell my client that it's okay to like face their biggest fear, which is allow their body to be as it is and potentially have it get bigger, knowing that the world will probably be very unkind, cruel and, quite frankly, biased towards them? And I remember talking to this in supervision and really like saying, like how do I bring this, do I address this? Is it important to address? And you know how do we talk about this with clients so that they can still feel supported, and then the client ultimately can decide how they feel about it.
Speaker 1:I think this is really where, like developing the relationship, establishing trust and knowing how to do that can be so hard, because if we're only using our motivational interviewing class we did in undergrad or grad school, I certainly would not have known what I was supposed to do, right, and so I think that's a really good point where it's a chance for us, too, to be able to bring up our own biases that might be coming up or showing up in session or noticing am I treating a client differently based on their body size, or am I feeling like you know, worried that they're gonna think this about me if I say this or that I'm offending them, or things like that? So I think that's a really good point. I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, or yeah, even thinking gosh, I can relate to that wanting to be in a smaller body, because, of course, who doesn't want to be in a smaller body? Because in our culture you're giving up privilege by not being in a small body. So I understand that fear and, yeah, I think it can be hard to sort of like stay strong too, you know, and sort of say, well, what does that smaller body, what is it that you want? Why is it just? You know, if it's just well, I'll feel better. Well, but what will make you feel better?
Speaker 2:Or you know, what is the health that you're hoping to achieve? If they're tying health to body size, well, I want to be able to go up a stairs you know, a set of stairs without being out of breath. Okay, we can work on that regardless of what is happening with your body. But I think so often supervision again, like and I know this is the point of the podcast, but it can be really helpful to sort of talk about all of that stuff in a safe space to sort of talk about all of that stuff in a safe space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think, just to like summarize it, I think it's like if you feel stuck with clients, of like, what do I say, or what am I supposed to do in this situation to help them feel validated? Or even have if you feel stuck with yourself, of like I feel like I'm not doing anything, I'm not helping them, this is coming up for me. That's a great place for supervision and also just being like, hey, I've never treated somebody who has this medical condition but doesn't want to take the traditional weight loss route. How do I intersect the two? And that can be a really great place to work with somebody who, especially if they're like, maybe experienced or have lived experience with, depending on what the situation might be. Once again, because we want to be. You know, if there's somebody who has a lived experience that's different than yours and would like to work with somebody who has a shared living experience, of course we want to refer them out.
Speaker 1:It's not always as simple, I think, as it comes on the internet of like refer them to somebody. Once again, coming back to like, yeah, did we have somebody who's licensed in that state has the same insurance. Does the client want that? How do we, you know all these things? Is that going to be a barrier to care? And, you know, can we sort of learn? If the client wants to work with us, how do we still support them and help them? And I think seeking out supervision can be one of those places. And so I, I think, you know, in a lot of contexts it's helpful for, yeah, just like developing our skills, talking through biases and, you know, getting through stuff that's coming up for us or stuck points. And you know I'm curious for you, heather, how long have you done supervision for as far as like receiving it? And then, yeah, I'm just curious about your experience, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. I think for me, like I probably started supervision early on during COVID so maybe 2020, because prior to 2020, a my practice was a little slow. I was only working one day a week and I was working in a doctor's office and even though I was doing sort of weight inclusive care, I wasn't getting as many of the sort of eating disorder type client. It was lots of chronic dieting, that kind of thing, and so I don't know if you found this to be true, but during COVID the eating disorder just numbers went through the roof and I had done training in eating disorder area, like I had done Jessica Setnick's course and I had done Marcy Evans course, and so I had those skills but honestly, just never really thought that was my interest area. But then when COVID happened, there was such a need, such a demand for eating disorder dieticians. All these eating disorder clinics had long wait lists and yada, yada, yada. So anyway, long story short, I think that's when I started working with more eating disorders and really felt that, even though I had the knowledge and all of those courses were wonderful courses and really they did kind of go over dialogue and sample clients, but until you're really in it, like you're in the trenches.
Speaker 2:I remember having that feeling of saying, yeah, but what if it doesn't go that way? What if I say X and then I expect them to say Z, but they say Y instead, and feeling kind of panicky. I think of like, oh gosh, now what have I done? And so I started working with the and I think you and I use the same supervision person and she's amazing, but it's been so helpful, it's been so helpful and I think sometimes she is a little bit like a coach and sometimes she is just that reassuring hat on the back Yep, you got this and sometimes it's more than that, and she kind of works with someone who's above her and maybe they work with someone. So it's kind of like a chain of command.
Speaker 1:So you can bring your really difficult clients to, and sometimes she brings my cases to her supervisor because they can be challenging yeah, that's such a good and, yes, during COVID, the there's actually like statistics out there to show it too, just how it boomed, unfortunately, and so the need was certainly there. And yeah, I think it's interesting right, because, like and I think this is actually such a great beautiful point too is like you have had a practice for many years at that point and been a dietitian for many, many years and you know you were also like, this is still new to me and I need some support and I think really making the differentiation between like we can learn the like, and I too have taken, I took, you know, marcy Evans course and did all these sorts of things to learn about you know the definitions of the different disorders, or, and just like we do at school, right, we learn about the chronic conditions people have.
Speaker 2:And what to look for, and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, labs to look for things like that. And then there's the actual practicality of like okay, I want my client to get labs, and now their doctor's giving them a hard time. The client doesn't want to get labs, yes, so what am I supposed to do with that? You know, or, yeah, if I say X, it doesn't always go how it's presented. So, yeah, we do have the same supervisor and I remember having one of the toughest client cases I've ever had.
Speaker 1:I bring it up often with my team and I do supervision with them now, but it was just like a space that I would go to to be like I don't know what to do anymore. And a lot of times, and I remember same thing I remember one time she was like I talked about this with my supervisor give me like the, the like more clinical, like this is what I, you know, you should say and suggest. And the other part of it was like this really sucks. It's so hard, so fair, how you're feeling, just validating you that like the path we were trying to take this client on was the path that they would also probably have taken and we were doing our best with what we had and I truly would like not have gone through that really tough client case had I not been in supervision.
Speaker 2:So it's it is. It's like very much like the you know outside of, like what we read about a textbook, like what in real life, what happens, how do at the interaction from above is so helpful, and I think I mean one thing that sort of held me back from getting a supervision sooner, I think is cost, and so I just want to talk about that because I think, as dietitians, particularly dietitians in private practice, it can feel like, you know, we are collecting crumbs to begin with, and then it's like, oh, I have to pay my biller and I have to pay for my website and I have to pay for the academy and I have to pay, and I have to pay, and I have to pay, and I have to pay, and it's, you know, it's just like, oh my gosh, there's nothing left. And I think that was for me. Cost was like a big thing, and I think that was for me. Cost was like a big thing.
Speaker 2:And so I did want to talk about that because for me, you know, I really appreciate the supervision that we get, because she's like a one off, like there's no commitment. We don't have to join this thousands of dollar coaching program. I literally, you know, sometimes it's like as needed, I usually see her every other week, but sometimes when I know I'm going to see that client that I'm like like low key cringing, I will schedule a little session before that because it just gives me that confidence to go into that session without low key cringing and so that's you know. I think that's something to think about too, that it doesn't have to be this like thousands of dollar coaching program. If you want that, awesome, that's great, but it doesn't, you know if you can find someone. That's not that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. Thank you for bringing that up too, because that is one thing we kind of didn't mention yet. Is that typically, yes, you'll have to pay somebody to provide you supervision mentioned? Yet is that typically, yes, you'll have to pay somebody to provide you supervision? And it is a cost. It's a tax deductible cost. I mean, you know, as a business owner, you can include that as something you know, receiving consultation, but it is a cost.
Speaker 1:But I also I think of it more as like an investment, and I think about that too. With like business coaching, you have to know your style of how you learn too. Because I think for me, when it came to like I would be the same way, like if I, if I had to sign up for like a package thing and I was required to do it, I don't think the supervision would have worked for me the way that I wanted it to. And I think the same thing when it came with business coaching, I had tried doing a group one before that was like we have these and I was like this is not for me. And ultimately I worked with a business coach that I met with one-on-one, and that's what I offer to dietitians now too, because there's just something about talking with somebody and saying what do I do For me and it sounds like for you and probably for a lot of us, that is a hundred times a better investment into us as business owners and clinicians.
Speaker 1:So it is an investment, but it's a worthy one, I think, and that's coming back to what we're putting our money into as business owners. We're thinking about the parts that we want to, the not icky business parts of like. We want to give great care and support our clients and, of course, all those things. And it will help with retention. It will help with you know how you maybe work with a therapist and share a client. They're like, wow, this was really great. Let me refer more people to you. It's a really, really important investment. You know when you're doing work that you have better experience in and know how to do well, and having that support from you know doing supervision can do that for you and make that a worthy investment, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know the word that kind of keeps coming up for me is that confidence and that when you show up with that confidence that's going to come across and you're going to sort of, you know, help empower your clients to be successful in their own journeys. But yeah, it is an investment, it's a cost, but it's an investment.
Speaker 1:Right, for sure I think you're right. The confidence piece is a really big one, because there's been times too, in supervision, I think, where I'm like I don't think I, you know you leave a session. You're kind of like that just felt not good you know, and sometimes and being a private practice is very lonely.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have a group, so I have a team, but when I'm seeing clients and then it's just like I see them and then I leave and I'm like, no, I have all these feelings I have no one to talk to about, like now, I have all these feelings and so I have no one to talk to about. Yeah, that's where supervision can just be helpful to have. And, yeah, like finding someone that works with your style whether it's like you know that having something consistent on your schedule once a month is what you need find somebody does that. You know, for us, that, as needed, has been so, so helpful. Because, yeah, sometimes things especially as you get more experience sometimes things our clients are, you know, things are kind of steady, and then other times there's like situations where we're like, well, I really need some support, you know. So finding the right fit for you, of course, is going to be really, really important.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't remember where I was going with that anymore like sort of maybe maybe there's like some group supervision and that may be less expensive, but I don't think I spend that much on supervision and the one-on-one, like the targeted, very specific this is my client and this is what's happening and this is what's going on. And to me that I think it kind of comes out in the wash, if not kind of coming out ahead, in that like I just have that more specific help will do for, which makes it more cost effective for some people, and you know they keep it small.
Speaker 1:So it's like everybody has a chance to go and talk about a case console, and it's nice to hear from others too of like situations, because you're like, oh, I never would have thought of that or other things. But yeah, there's definitely certain options out there. Which brings me now to how are you doing supervision and being maybe a resource for some of our listeners? So tell us a little bit about when maybe you started offering supervision and you know, kind of going into this direction now where you want to help support other dietitians through supervision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this has been a fairly recent sort of add-on to my business.
Speaker 2:I have been doing this for so long and so, of course, every client is new and unique, but also they start to sort of feel a little bit the same, and so the one-on-one for me was I still do that, of course, but I just wanted something new and different and challenging.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, talked about it in supervision and decided to start this arm of providing supervision for others, and I would love to work with therapists who are new to the health at every size, but also dieticians, and so I think I really I have a couple of dieticians as clients, not as supervision, but just as my, you know, traditional clients, and I really like working with other healthcare professionals, and so I think that that's kind of, to begin with, I like that, but, yeah, I think, just coming up with our own weight bias and anyway. So that that's, yeah, supervision, offering it for, you know, dietitians and or therapists or providers who do this work, and I really wanted it to be an inexpensive way for people to kind of just like the supervision that you and I get sort of like a drop in. Of course, I hope that they want to come back, maybe next month, but they're not locked in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's awesome that you have that offering and, you know, certainly it can feel scary to go from like being in super-sensitivity and saying, am I ready, can I do this.
Speaker 1:But I think you said this earlier on too, and it's actually a way for us to still use our clinical skills, because when you're not in the session yourself, when you're not the one that's like in it, you can sort of have that like yeah, you can like back up and like see it, whereas sometimes when you're the person in the room with the client, we forget things. And so, you know, I, I know from just all you know, obviously, talking to you and knowing you, you obviously were more than ready to do it. So I'm really excited that that's something you're offering to dietitians. And is there an area in particular that you I mean obviously I think you know body image, intuitive eating, people who are new to Hayes you said had health at every size, any other sort of areas that people might be like? Oh, this would be a really good fit for me as I'm looking for supervision.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, yeah, I don't know. I hadn't really thought about that much, so I don't know that I have an answer. But yeah, I mean I have done a couple of supervisions and some of one of them was actually with someone who have supervision, but it's like not, that person is not super accessible and so I don't know. So even I guess I would just to say, like, if you are currently even working with Nourish or Berry Street or one of those type, or if you have your own private practice, and I think, particularly if you're just getting started, or, like we had said earlier, if you're finding I don't know what to say in session, I don't know how to keep them coming back. I'm running out of top, but you know, or I'm feeling uncomfortable, or like body image keeps coming up, or, you know, glp-1s keeps coming up and I don't know what to say. And all of that, you know, would be good fit. I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that was, I had to be on the spot there. But that's such a good point because I have talked to dietitians who work at some of the other even contractors, like at my practice, you know, I've everyone's on our team at W2, and we offer supervision within the practice. But sometimes if dietitians maybe are working for a different private practice and they're like a contractor, their practice is an offer supervision or you know, yeah, some of these bigger companies, you know it's still someone that you could still go to somebody else and really get that support to continue your skills, and so Heather would be an excellent option for that. So I'll be sure to include her information in the show notes.
Speaker 2:I'm also running a special Eva. I don't know if you're going to bring this up, but I'll just jump in there. But yeah, for being on the podcast and for the listeners of the podcast, I am offering a couple sort of free spots. So if you message me on Instagram which I'm sure will include my Instagram if you just say RD to CEO supervision, we can get you set up with a free supervision session and then you can kind of see if it's something that you, you know, want to continue with which is such a great deal, and thank you for offering that to the listener.
Speaker 1:I hope people take advantage of that, because if you haven't done supervision before or you're like not really sure if it'll be helpful, you know, it's one of those things I think like once you do it, you're're like, oh my God, this, I should have been doing this way sooner.
Speaker 2:That's why I want to offer it as a way, just to kind of get your feet wet with it and and I think most people will leave, hopefully with the oh my gosh, I should have done this so so much sooner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you are somebody who's listening, who feels like that might be a exciting opportunity for you, please you can head to the show notes, or, heather, let us know, tell us your Instagram handle and also your website that people can go on to find you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. My website is intuitive-nutritioncom and I havea free guide on there under the supervision tab, and that's just some questions to sort of like start thinking about stuff on the. You know weight and body image and all that. And then Instagram is anti-dietheather and love to connect with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you are interested in taking Heather up on that offer, if you DM her on Instagram and RDCEOSupervision, she will offer you a free session, which is amazing, and I really encourage people to do it, because it is one of those things that can you know when you do it and especially, finding the right fit for you of a person that can be just like such a validating and helpful space to really grow your skills and your confidence, which you know I know you emphasize as well which is such a true point. So this was so great and I'm so glad we talked about it because, like I said, I bring it up often with like, either if I'm interviewing somebody or interns that we're having. If you've ever heard of supervision and I hope it's something that continues to grow in our field, because I think it will be you know just the way that we can continue to support each other and learn from one another's experiences, so I'm really excited that you're doing that and thank you so much for being here. Any final thoughts on supervision?
Speaker 2:No, but I think, yeah, it was really really great to be here, and I think you're right, it is something that needs to be talked about more often and it really should be kind of more of a thing for dietitians as opposed to just you know well, maybe I'll do that.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. And what a great opportunity, then, to the one that Heather's offering now to see. But yeah, thanks again for being here and talking with us about all this, and thank you to listeners for tuning in today. I hope this episode was helpful and we will catch you next time. Thanks, heather, bye, bye. Thanks for listening to the RD to CEO podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources mentioned or find more at wwwrdtoceocom. Never miss an episode by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
