The RDtoCEO Podcast
Dive into The RDtoCEO Podcast, hosted by Registered Dietitian and CEO, Eva Haldis, where she shares her journey in entrepreneurship, with discussions on the basics on building a private practice and becoming a confident CEO. The RDtoCEO Podcast is your go-to resource for mastering the art of transitioning from a dietitian to a successful CEO.
The RDtoCEO Podcast
The Power of Partnership ft. Alissa Rumsey, MS, RD, CDN, CSCS & Jasmine Hormati, MS, RD
In this episode, we’re joined by Alissa Rumsey, MS, RD, CDN, CSCS, and Jasmine Hormati, MS, RD, to dive into the transformative power of partnerships in dietitian entrepreneurship. We discuss:
- The benefits of partnering with other business owners
- Navigating challenges and division of labor in partnerships
- Communication best practices for staying aligned on goals
- How collaborations can expand services and create greater impact
- Why thinking outside the box when choosing a partner can lead to unexpected growth opportunities
Whether you're considering a collaboration or want to streamline your business systems, this episode offers actionable insights and inspiration!
More About Alissa & Jasmine
Alissa Rumsey, MS, RD, CDN, CSCS (she/her) is a registered dietitian, certified intuitive eating counselor, and the author of Unapologetic Eating: Make Peace With Food and Transform Your Life. She has worked as a business coach, consultant, and supervisor for dietitians and clinicians since 2017. Through The Liberated Clinician Business Trainings, Alissa offers coaching, courses, programs, and online resources to help dietitians and clinicians start, build, and grow their nutrition private practices. Alissa loves to work with other health professionals to challenge the 'status quo' both in nutrition care and in business, so that we can reframe what is possible as clinicians – and do it together.
Alissa is also the founder of Rumsey Nutrition Consulting, a weight-inclusive virtual nutrition practice. Alissa calls New York City home and spends her free time exploring the city’s food scene and searching for patches of green space to sunbathe in.
Where To Find Alissa:
www.theliberatedclinician.com
Instagram: @alissarumseyRD
Jasmine Hormati, MS, RD (she/her) is the owner of Mendinground Nutrition, an insurance-based virtual private practice in New York City that specializes in eating disorder and disordered eating recovery, and body image work. She is the co-creator of the Insurance Credentialing and Billing Course for RDs and co-facilitates The Liberated Clinician Group Program with Alissa Rumsey. Jasmine loves talking shop with other dietitians and helping them with their practices, whether that's building systems to streamline their work, working through time management sticking points, or supporting them through all things insurance credentialing and billing. In her free time, she enjoys hiking, cooking/baking, and playing board games.
Where To Find Jasmine:
https://mendinground.com/
Instagram: @mendinground
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Welcome to the RD to CEO podcast. I'm your host, eva Haldis, registered dietitian, who one day found herself a whole CEO of a business. Join me as we navigate the world of entrepreneurship so you can go from being an RD who sees clients in private practice to a confident CEO growing the practice of your dreams.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the RD to CO podcast.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello, welcome back to the RD to CO podcast. It is January 2025. Happy New Year. I am very excited to be returning after an unexpected little hiatus from the podcast. I took a little bit of a break. It was kind of like and I've mentioned this on the podcast before I know that if I don't stick to like a weekly schedule, if I just like sort of let myself pass, it's much easier for me to like let myself to keep passing and keep you know, there's another week, another week, and I think at the time it was just like where things were in my life. I just didn't have the capacity and needed a little break because I had other things taking up all my time and energy. But I'm really happy to be back recording episodes and bringing another episode to start off the year with two guests today on the podcast Alyssa Rumsey, who is a returning guest, and Jasmine Hormati, and we are going to be talking to them all about partnerships and their experiences developing a partnership and how that's gone and the things that help make one work well and some of the challenges that can come up with that.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to give a quick little update. I mean, I'm obviously going to do an episode that's going to recap 2024. And I want to do kind of an end of year financial recap to go with a lot of my financial episodes. My bookkeeper has just not finished our books for the year and so once I have those numbers, I'm going to definitely record an episode talking all about kind of how the year went financially things that worked well, things that maybe will work better. Moving forward, I have a lot of things coming up this year with my practice as far as like systematizing and organizing and lots of great topics that I definitely want to talk about. Of course, if there is a podcast episode that would be interesting for you, I would love to hear from you all. So if there's something that you might want to hear, a great place to do that is to just contact me on my website, wwwrd2ceocom. That can be a place you can go to contacts page. Of course, you can also message me directly on Instagram. All of my socials are going to be in the show notes.
Speaker 2:I also want to give a little life update and I want to just give a quick content warning. It's going to be talking about pregnancy, so if that's a topic that might feel hard for you. Feel free to skip ahead a few minutes for the episode. We will catch you later on or maybe at the next episode. So I've, I guess, spoiler alert through that content warning.
Speaker 2:I am pregnant. I'm 23 weeks pregnant and expecting my second child, which is a big reason why the podcast took a little bit of a hiatus. Unexpected First trimester pregnancy is challenging and it was challenging for me, especially with a four-year-old at home and having different symptoms that I didn't have with my first pregnancy. And so, yeah, much needed time to allocate the time and energy that I had to certain things and having to take a little bit of a backseat to others. So that's really exciting for my life personally and, of course, it's going to really shape how 2025 looks for me and my business, and I'm excited to be able to talk about sort of preparing for maternity leave, because I think that's also something I see people ask a lot about. So that might be an interesting topic for you. Surely, I'm sure it'll be something that I will be talking about in the next few weeks. So that is my big life update and why things just had to take a little bit of a slow time. You know, getting back into the podcast but, like I said, I'm really, really excited to be back and sharing episodes with my fellow RD business owners. Now that's been, you know, the cat's out of the bag on that one. I'm really excited to talk a little bit more about our episode today, which is, like I said, with Alyssa Ramsey and Jasmine Hormati.
Speaker 2:Alyssa is a returning guest. She and I have talked before on the podcast, but this is the first time listening. A little bit about Alyssa she's a registered dietitian, certified intuitive eating counselor and the author of Unapologetic Eating Make Peace with Food and Transform your Life. She's worked as a business coach, consultant and supervisor for dietitians and clinicians since 2017. Through the Liberty Clinician Business Trainings, alyssa offers coaching courses, programs and online resources to help dietitians and clinicians start, build and grow their nutrition private practices. Alyssa loves to work with other health professionals to challenge the status quo both in nutrition care and in business, so we can reframe what is possible as clinicians and do it together.
Speaker 2:A little bit about Jasmine. Jasmine is the owner of Mending Our Nutrition, an insurance-based virtual private practice in New York City that specializes in eating disorder and disorder eating recovery and body image work. She's the co-creator of the insurance credentialing and billing course for RDs and co-facilitates, the library clinician group program with Alyssa Rumsey, both of which we'll talk about in the episode today. Jasmine loves talking shop with other dietitians and helping them with their practices, whether that's building systems to streamline their work, working through time management, sticking points or supporting them through all things insurance, credentialing and billing. Such a fun episode to chat with both of them and go over partnerships, because I've seen it done in many different ways. I have a partnership myself which I talk a little bit about in the episode, whether it's dieticians starting practices together or partnering with a different clinician kind of like I have or doing a project similar to like Alyssa and Jasmine have. So it's going to be a great episode. They're going to be talking about their course that they created, about insurance, credentialing and billing and an upcoming workshop that they're going to be having. So I will be linking all of that in the show notes, of course. So, without further ado, let's get into our very first episode of 2025.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited today to have two guests. This is actually my first episode with two guests and it makes a lot of sense that there's two because we are going to be talking about partnerships. So today I have Alyssa Rumsey and Jasmine Harmonion and we are going to be talking about their experiences going through a partnership. I've mentioned before on the podcast that I do have a partnership that I'm in, but it's a little bit different than theirs. So I'm excited to hear sort of their experience on it from a business perspective and talk all things. So before we get into that, I want to be able to have them both say hi and just tell us a little bit about ourselves. Alyssa has been on the podcast before, so welcome back Alyssa and welcome Jasmine. So why don't both of you? Yeah, just say hi and introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about you and your businesses.
Speaker 3:Sure. Thanks so much for having us on, happy to be back and excited to be here with Jasmine. So I'm Alyssa.
Speaker 3:I am a registered dietitian and a certified intuitive eating counselor and I have a virtual private practice that I've had for about 10 years now where I work primarily with folks through eating disorders, disordered eating, things like that. I also wrote the book Unapologetic Eating and then, starting in 2017, just how Ava and I met, as we talked about last time, I think, on my last podcast episode I've been working with dietitians and clinicians in a business coaching capacity and running business trainings and workshops, and so I have another branch of my business called the Liberated Clinician, where I offer business trainings, courses, programs, really helping dietitians and clinicians to start, grow and scale their nutrition practices in a way that feels values aligned. So I'm really passionate about helping other health professionals do that and do that in a way that's really aligned with their needs and with their lives and kind of stepping outside a lot of the capitalist framework that we all exist in and kind of figuring out like what works best for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hi everyone, I'm Jasmine and, yeah, super excited to be here with you both. And, yeah, so I'm also a dietician and a certified intuitive eating counselor, based in New York, and I'm the founder of Mending Ground Nutrition, which is an insurance-based telehealth private practice where we support mostly folks with eating disorders, but also disordered eating, recovery, body image work, cos and other sort of things that come up using non-diet, weight-inclusive, anti-oppressive approach. Yeah, that's like the main thing that I do. And then in 2022, I started supporting other clinicians through the Liberate Clinician with Alyssa, and that has been really great just to be able to help clinicians like Alyssa and start and grow their businesses and their practices, and doing so with like a values aligned way, in a way that works for them and their life. And yeah, we've been working together on that ever since.
Speaker 2:It's been really great, I love that. Thank you both for sharing your stories. I'm curious how your. Obviously we're going to be talking about partnerships today. But I'm curious how your. Obviously we're going to be talking about partnerships today, but I'm curious how your partnership started and how it's evolved, really, I guess, over the years, since you've been doing it for a few years now.
Speaker 1:I would say it sort of started the partnership. I guess maybe didn't officially start until maybe like 2021. But I do like to preface that my sort of like working relationship started with Alyssa in spring of 2020 when I attended her entrepreneurship retreat and that's why I first really got to know her more and how she goes about sharing business advice and consultations and things like that. But, yeah, we started working together in the summer of 2021.
Speaker 1:I was about one year into being a dietitian, wanting to work in private practice, but I was like, yeah, working in food service before that and I was like I'm ready to step away from this and really start my practice and also try to work in maybe someone else's practice to learn and grow as a clinician. And it so happened to work out that I got to work with Alyssa. She was looking for someone to do some more behind the scenes work and admin work, and so that's kind of where it began and that's sort of what I was doing for I don't know exactly how many months, but for a while and eventually transitioned into doing some more like one-on-one nutrition counseling in her practice, running some support groups, and then eventually we started working like collaborating on the liberated clinician in the spring of 2022. And I was again kind of helping more with behind the scenes work on that and things like that. So it's kind of evolved over time in terms of what it looks like, but that's sort of like where it all started.
Speaker 3:For my end, it was a great way. Jasmine and I knew each other a little bit from the retreat that she attended, although this was when I used to run in-person retreats and it was, sadly, march of 2020 or April of 2020. So we had to convert it to virtual, so I had not met Jasmine in person. You're still living in California right At the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was in San Diego finishing up my internship.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, it worked out really well when I was looking to bring someone on to do more like behind the scenes, like project management, like some administrative stuff, and you know we can get more into this.
Speaker 3:But I think something as a business owner, you know, I think Jasmine and I both agree that, like we've been very like, transparent, open from the beginning about you know my goals, her goals and how can we work together with both of those.
Speaker 3:So I knew from the beginning that she had a private practice, that she was working on starting it and also wanted, you know, as a newer dietitian, to gain more experience working with someone else.
Speaker 3:And so really from the beginning we had an open dialogue on what this work looked like. And you know, as her business started to get traction and get busier which was amazing how we scale that back and so, as she mentioned, it started with her more in a project management admin capacity and then really has shifted to the point now where I do see us more as really collaborators and in deliberated clinician, which is sort of an umbrella term for the business trainings that I run. But also we have a six-month program that we run and Jasmine's taken more of a role in co-facilitating and running some different portions of that program. And, yeah, and then, as she has gone and grown her practice and incorporated, becoming a network with insurance and now growing a team right Like that's where I think, as we start to have some like different experiences, it's been really great to continue to work together to really now on this dietician and clinician business training side of my business, to like bring both of our strengths together and our knowledge together in the offerings that we're providing there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a good point too, alyssa, about just like being so transparent, because I mean it sounds like it's. I mean it started as Jasmine, you were kind of working for Alyssa and then over time it's just sort of this evolved thing. And especially, I think, because you both have your own separate businesses, being so open and transparent from the very start is so vital because it'll help prevent, you know, any kind of resentment building, miscommunication and so just having like expectations set early on. I mean I think that's important in any capacity when you bring anyone as part of your business or join with somebody is to be open and set expectations. But especially when doing a partnership, it has to be a place that can be open and transparent.
Speaker 2:And it's cool to see that you've both sort of evolved to continue working together less of like a working for Alyssa and more so working together while both separately growing your other businesses. So that's really great that you've been able to do that. And then most recently you created a course on insurance credentialing and billing, which is so exciting. I'd love to talk about that and the process getting there. Does that one feel like more of the project? That was like more just you two as partners and less so. You know one person's thing and the other person's kind of behind the scene.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, I think we're both nodding to that. Yeah, so that was something that again in my practice, my practice has, just as I've put more time and energy into the business training part. I still have a private practice, but it's very small and so for me going in that work with insurance just doesn't make sense at this point for my business model and I have seen the shifts in our profession and in insurance reimbursement and so you know Jasmine also seeing those shifts and she had gone and networked through her practice and she came to me. What was it? Just January of 2024, jasmine.
Speaker 3:And this is what I also love about partnerships right, like I've been a dietitian for 17 years and a businessman myself for a decade and you know, just, I've had, like the past couple of years with my own health issues and family health issues and personal stuff. Like my energy for doing new things is not where it used to be when I was younger and just didn't have as much. Yeah, there's just other things taking up brain space for me, and so what I love with Jasmine like she's always done this in our work together like coming with these really great, like creative bigger picture ideas, and so, yeah, she came to me in January and was like, hey, what do you think about? So it's her idea about like what do you think about creating a course? Another course that spun out of those entrepreneurship retreats that I used to run in person. I have a dietitian entrepreneur foundation course. That's for people, self-paced, and it helps people really walk them through steps to start their business, like what it takes to start a business. There's some resources out there for people but a lot of them financially might be out of reach or just like a really big lift for people or if they're like not sure if they're going to do it.
Speaker 3:And so I was like I love that idea, that's great. And so, yes, this was really where you know it was Jasmine's expertise in someone who has gone through the credentialing process and you know the billing process and like knows a lot about that. And then me coming in with I've built courses and programs and content creation and like done all of those things multiple times before and like the marketing and all of that and sort of having some community already built around dietitians and clinicians in the business space. So yeah, it was great because we were really just starting out and this was one of the things we talked about at the beginning, of talking about the communication of like, okay, this is going to be different than before, where it really was. We're still housing it under my business, but it is set up like a partnership and so kind of talking about division of labor and division of profits and what this looks like, and sort of looking at our roles in that way, in a different way than we had done in the past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just wanted to add that it was, at least from my perspective too, one of those things that I knew I could probably do this on my own and that I've never created a course before and the accountability would be really helpful. And, like Alyssa shared, like she's made self-paced courses and things like that before, so it was nice to be able to partner with someone who has had that experience and can kind of help guide through the process, and so it's not like having to reinvent everything of like how do I do a course launch, and what platform do I use, and things like that. And so, yeah, there were like strengths from both sides coming in to be able to put this together and stuff. Yeah, that was really helpful.
Speaker 2:I love hearing that too, because I think even for me I'm like, oh, I feel inspired because I can certainly relate, alyssa to just like the energy has been shifted in my life, just from things as well, just from, you know, especially with parenting, which I talk about a lot. But, yeah, my energy has shifted and my time is very limited, but there's ideas I have sometimes that I'm like I can't execute and my instinct is always I'm going to just pay somebody to help me or something like that. But like, I actually have never even thought about doing some of the things that I've had ideas on in a partnership way, because it makes a lot of sense, especially given, you know, I think, alyssa, like you said, you're having the sort of the umbrella, the separate company for coaching and business stuff, and then Jasmine, having that experience with the insurance credentialing like actually makes this such a great partnership for both of you and I think that's actually a really perfect way. I think there's other ways that people can decide to be in a partnership outside of just two people that have different expertises coming together.
Speaker 2:Sometimes people want to start a private practice together and have a partnership there, just like something that Jasmine said accountability and not doing it alone, and especially when there's maybe parts that one person excels at and the other person maybe struggles with, and vice versa, it can be helpful to have a teammate, but, as Alyssa mentioned, there has to be conversations right about division of labor and profit, and I think that's probably like the more nitty gritty business stuff. I think the fun part is like oh yeah, let's do this fun thing together. And then there's like the hard part, which is we have to talk about money, we have to talk about how we're going to organize this and make it fair so that it feels fair to both people, and so I'd love to hear your experience with having that conversation, how you've decided to sort of separate things and if you've gone down any sort of like legal routes or creating a partnership. Yeah, I'd love to hear more about your experience there.
Speaker 3:Talking about those harder business-y things, yeah, sure, and I guess I can start from my perspective. Yeah, we didn't put into place like a legal business partnership or anything like that. We basically created like a new contract between the two of us. Like we have, as Justin mentioned before, we work together in multiple capacities and so we're always updating what that agreement looks like. And I think that's something for me too. Like, even with this agreement, that kind of talking to Jasmine of like, okay, let's talk first about what is the division of labor going to look like, and like, let's you know, yes, we have the brainstorm idea for the course as a whole. Let's go through the nitty gritty of like, okay, what are all the things that have to happen for this course to come to light before we start building anything? Right? And I think to your point, like, yeah, the fun stuff is often the building of it, and I have learned this the hard way I talk about this a lot with my coaching clients of like no, no, no, no, no. Building is like, honestly, one of the last things that happens. There's a lot of groundwork to do before you start putting together the content and building out the course. And so, yeah, we did kind of both come in brainstorming what we saw as the different pieces of the project that were going to have to happen, and kind of thinking about our strengths and also thinking about like timeframe and all of those things. And then, yeah, for me I mean I spoke to a couple of other colleagues and supervisors of mine who have done similar partnerships and collaborations before to get a sense of you know, in this case right, like one person doing most of the content creation and the other person really bringing in more of the like you know business name and like experience in that area and marketing, which is it's a little tougher right, because it's not like a division of time labor, so much as it is the past almost decade that I've spent kind of building up to this. And so for me, I talked and I let Jasmine know like, hey, I'm not totally sure how to do this either. I'm going to talk to some people and get some input and some sense around. What are some ideas of how we can do this? And so we decided on a profit sharing model.
Speaker 3:And then it was really coming down to like, okay, what is the split Trying to think about and how we ended up structuring it. And what I communicated to Jasmine is like what is the split Trying to think about and how we ended up structuring it? And what I communicated to Jasmine is like this is not the split forever. This is like let's put this at like a year and then we'll re. I think we did a year.
Speaker 3:I actually can't remember, I don't know. It's a contract in front of me but I was like then we'll revisit and see like, okay, who's doing what? What's going on? Like cause, really, with courses like this, the content creation absolutely takes a ton of time and it's a one-time thing, outside of having to update it every couple of years, and it's the marketing that's more ongoing. So I was like, yeah, I know I'm doing the bulk of the marketing at the get-go, but we don't know what that's going to look like in a year, and so let's start with this split and then it's always, always open to renegotiation. Jasmine, I don't know if you want to add anything to that from your perspective of how that felt for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing all of that and yeah, I mean, I do think that the biggest foundational piece for all of this was that communication that we, alyssa and I, have had over time and built over time, that, that trust and that be able to like talk about all these details and the transparency which is something I really appreciated from the beginning of when I started working with Alyssa just being able to like bring up different questions or different ideas and things like that.
Speaker 1:So I think that really helped build the foundation to make this process easier of like talking about, yeah, the profit sharing and and the division of labor and all that stuff. So, yeah, and I think the fact that it is flexible and open, like going forward to, really helps. I know I felt kind of nervous talking about this too, because I was like I've never done something like this before and I I think I might have talked to like one or two other people about like what this could look like and, yeah, it was like kind of scary talking about it, but also, again, like knowing Alyssa, like it's been really easy and helpful, which is great. So it did go pretty smoothly, which was really nice, but, yeah, just sort of navigating it for the first time is new and it's a little scary various capacities over the years.
Speaker 3:It is this really tough line. And now the two of you also employ people, so you might relate to this of wanting to pay people fairly, wanting people to feel valued and also recognizing what goes into the business bottom line and the profits coming in, let's say, from this course, for example. They don't come to me, right, they go to the business and then there's all sorts of expenses before I'm getting me personally, I'm getting anything, and I think that when people have not run their own business, you just don't know, right, I didn't know this stuff before. And so, yeah, I think, just in general, I try to be really transparent of like yes, this absolutely. Like, I am so huge on people should negotiate, they should like ask for what they want. Instead, of course, there's part of me that like starts to be like, oh wait, like, but no, like, I'm like, no, no, this is great, I'm glad they're doing it.
Speaker 3:And it's a negotiation, it's a conversation, and I think that's where, with any negotiation and conversation going into it, knowing what you are bringing to the table, and I'm like really granular with like, okay, here are the expenses.
Speaker 3:Here's why I'm suggesting this split to start with. Again, we can renegotiate, like here's the things. I didn't just like pick this out of thin air. You know I talk a lot with people about forecasting of like, yeah, how did you set your rates? And usually it's like, oh well, I looked at what others were charging and that can make it really hard to actually like communicate those rates if there's nothing foundational underneath that. So I think that was something too from my perspective, of like, okay, I've really thought about not just the time spent, because absolutely that's a big thing, but also thinking about these like more intangible pieces, more intangible pieces. And then that flexibility of like, yeah, we can renegotiate, we can revisit this and see what the division of labor split looks like going forward. We sort of have an idea for the next year-ish and then let's see where we're at.
Speaker 2:I think it's so smart to sort of set that as, like in the year, let's re-look at this and figure out what's going to make the most sense moving forward, because so much can change from like where you think things are going to go to actually what happens in a business and the vision that you maybe had isn't going to be what it becomes, and then you know things can shift and whose responsibility is what and all those things. So I think it's smart to sort of like set in something to formally talk about. I mean, I do that with my team. We have these like formal quarterly check-ins and annual check-in, because it sort of like allows us to have something scheduled that's going to be like primarily on the focus of checking in and seeing how things are going, because it can be so hard like Jasmine was saying especially, and Melissa like it's hard to talk about money, especially for us as dietitians. We always say right, like never learned how to do that and knowing what's, you know what we're worth or what to set and what feels good, that's not going to feel like a resentment later and also I think you know, both of you having some experience in business already knowing that it's not just, yeah, this money that's going to be.
Speaker 2:You know, somebody buys it, and then we have to think about the split of it, the taxes paying for the you know where the course is going to sit. All these things are so much that goes into it that's like not even profit still, that you have to decide and that can be like a hard conversation to have with somebody who you know at first. Maybe when people go into partnerships they're like friends, or for you guys it sounds like you were probably became friends and also had a dynamic where Alyssa was kind of like your boss or like you're working for her, and then it sort of had to have this shift and so it can. Certainly I think there can be a lot of challenges in having those communications. I'm curious for both of you your experience of like. Were there times when it was like hard to talk about things, and how did you work through that? Maybe together or separately?
Speaker 1:no-transcript. Like the conversation went really well. We were sort of on the same page already, thinking about the same things, and so like it ended up working out and I was obviously nervous and worried almost for nothing, but yeah, so I feel like that's how it's mostly been for us. I can't really think of any situations that have come up though, other than like the mental ones that happened for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think again, as you both are saying, like talking about money is just something so many of us, myself included, we're not really like brought up doing or taught to do. Any of us, myself included, we're not really like brought up doing or taught to do. And so, yeah, like I've had more experience with it, with working with other people in the past, and it still can be uncomfortable, like I said, there's still, I always say like any sign of like defensiveness. That's like a thing for me to be like oh wait, what's going on there, right, and so you know, I can't recall if that happened with the instance Jasmine's talking about, but just to like normalize that it makes sense because, right, like you build this business and it's like your baby and no matter what kind of way you're collaborating or connecting with someone, there's going to be right like a little bit of like giving that away or like someone else having input. So, yeah, I think, as Jasmine said, like the fact that we baseline had a good relationship, baseline started off like very open and transparent. I always like to encourage the people I'm working with to be able to whether it's like dietetic interns up to people I'm like fully partnering with to be able to come to me with things like this, and I really try to again, even if, like internally, there's a little bit of like that, like initially happens, I try to really that's my own stuff, that's not on them.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I think again like, yeah, jasmine, with the circumstances she was talking about, as she was like stepping away from my business and doing more with hers, absolutely, you know, part of me was like, oh man, I'm losing this. Like really great, like asset, like she's been so, so helpful in my business, like day to day for so long, and absolutely I was like part of me was disappointed, but also part of me like a knew that this was her long-term goal and b was really excited for her that this was was going well. So I think like, yeah, just sort of holding all those things as a business owner is one thing, because I do think that there's so much and again, one of the tenets of capitalism is competition and there's you know, I see this a lot in discussions online of like well, like non-competes and things like that. When I started out, I had non-competes in my contract, even though, as I since learned, even though, as I since learned, they don't really stand up in court, but in having conversations with coaches and supervisors I've worked with over the years, it's like okay, kind of coming back to the relational piece of it, of like no, this is a relationship and yeah, to me it's not competition, it's like no, if jasmine's business succeeds, like amazing, like I'm really happy for that right, I'm happy for her, I'm happy for like the clients.
Speaker 3:It's helping, like this is great, this is lifting like all of us up and it's like really great for her. Um, so I think like shifting from seeing it as like oh, someone now is not working in my business, or like I'm losing this or they're going to like compete with my business, to no, we still have been able to connect and collaborate, and the insurance credentialing course being the most recent example of that of just how things can shift and yeah, so I think a lot of it, the transparency, the, from my perspective, sort of knowing what was my own stuff, as you know, doing a project or a business with an actual person, like as a partner but in, in hiring and having people work for you and with you and I think that really speaks to the values aligned way that you work is like having a good relationship, and I totally feel the same way with my team is so important.
Speaker 2:And then that's it sounds like being able to hold that and keep that going and not being like resentful that she was leaving, like one you knew that up front and you were happy for her. And yeah, there's like I mean there's so many people who need our help or want our help, like out there there's more than plenty of clients to go around and all the other things. And that sounds like what it was allowed, this sort of like relation for both of you to continue to cultivate into something new, which is now the course. You're doing your most recent one, and so I think that's just like important to remember when we're hiring folks as clinicians and really like wanting from just like a place of, like I think that too, all the time like what feels icky for me as a, as an employer, like I don't have to do things just because it's like what people say I should do, like the non-competes and stuff like that, like I don't have one for my team. But I'm always open and transparent. I try to hire people that want to work for a private practice not own their own but I always say, if they're going to do it, I'm happy to help them and roll out the red carpet to do it and what they need. But I always try to set my expectations too, and I want to know if somebody's planning to start their own private practice, just for my own sake of knowing what's going to come to my business, and so I think there's ways that we can still do things in this sort of values aligned way and have a business mindset with it as well. It doesn't have to be like the icky corporate stuff that we see and think that we have to do as business owners. So, yeah, I think it's just a testament to the relationship you guys have both had and speaking with like being in values aligned.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about this too, as both of you're talking like. It's so important to understand. So it's so important, and I also want to hear both of your perspectives of like. How do you know who's a good person to partner with? Because I think you really do have to be aligned right, like if I wanted to partner with somebody and on like a topic of nutrition and like they were like a weight loss dietitian, it would like not really work well for my values, right. So that wouldn't make sense for me, sense for me. So I'm curious obviously there's going to be like literal philosophy agreements and things like that. But like I'm curious, what other things do you guys think are like good ways to find a good partner or know it's a good idea to have a partnership with somebody?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I mean, I feel like you touched on some of the things already of like being values aligned, and I know Alyssa and I have very similar philosophies in terms of like being values aligned and I know Alyssa and I had very similar philosophies in terms of like our approach to nutrition. And you know I've learned a lot in terms of business practices from Alyssa over the years, like with yeah throughout, just like working with her behind the scenes and doing admin and project management and do like the work that we did in the liberated clinician and supporting other practice owners and things like that. So I feel like that that has helped with the values and sort of like the philosophies being similar.
Speaker 1:And I think the other thing is also just thinking about like who who the other person is and like what sort of ways can they balance out? You know my maybe like weaker points or you know things like that. Um, because I think like like we talked about for like the course, like the marketing side, like alissa had that part like down, that was very easy. Or even creating like a course, like she's done that before, so that was very easy. Um versus yeah. For me it's like I'm bringing in that insurance, um expertise. So I think thinking about those like um, how do you, how do you help each other out and balance each other out, also is important. And then also just like, maybe energy and like the way you work together and communicate, like those, those methods of like, okay, do you prefer, like, the weekly check-ins or do you prefer to do things all via, like email? And how quick are you to respond? And like, what's that expectation um, for each other?
Speaker 3:so I think those are some things that come to mind initially for me yeah I think I'll add to that the for me, what I've realized over the years and this goes for, like anybody I'm in relationship with, like partners, friends, business partners the person's nervous system and their energy and their self-regulation. I'm someone who's very sensitive to other people's energy and so for me, that used to be something when I was younger that I saw as a bad thing and like felt like shame that I like there are certain people that like really like rub me the wrong way or like was hard for me to beat around. And now I'm like no, this is just, this is like who I am and this is the type of people that I relate to the best and certainly right. Like yeah, I have friendships with people who have different energy levels than me, but in a business relationship setting in like a partnership with my therapist, I'm like no, no, no, I know, like very specifically what I'm looking for at this point, and so I think that's a big thing.
Speaker 3:For me is like is this someone who like how do they handle stress? Right? How do they handle? Like business ownership is really, really tough. Like, how do they handle stress? How do they handle? I mean multiple projects going on at one time? How do they handle like overwhelm? Do they have like coping tools? Or are they at least like sort of open and interested and thinking about how to support their own nervous system? Because certainly for us as clinicians, I think that's so important, and also for us as entrepreneurs and just like humans.
Speaker 3:Um, so for me, that's also something I think about too, that there might be people who I love and have like amazing ideas and I'm just like no, like this is not someone I'm going to work well with, like, and so I think that's one of the things I think about a lot, in addition to some of the things Jasmine said too, and around like organization and flexibility and communication.
Speaker 3:I think Jasmine and I both kind of work in a similar way. I mean, she's helped me get even more organized with project management tool. A couple of years ago she got me on Asana, which has been amazing, but, yeah, sort of someone who kind of can understand like. I'm huge with like Google Docs and Google Drive and like very detail oriented and it's certainly helpful. Like I said, I tend to be better at details and at big picture and I love partnering with people in different ways who do have like the big picture ideas, because that's really helpful for me. But yeah, I think that like baseline, sort of like energy nervous system piece, that's like a little more intangible, but that's something that I've learned over the years is just really important and certainly when thinking about who I'm going to be working with would be something I would consider.
Speaker 1:I feel like I want to add to that, just like how does the person make me feel? Like I feel that way when I'm just like meeting a new person in general, like whether it's like professional or just like personal, personal life, friends, that kind of thing, and like how did I feel after interacting with that person and I feel like that makes a big difference yeah, absolutely, because you know, we've certainly over the years and definitely this year, where I had a lot of 2024, where I had a lot of, um, personal family things come up, including like right when we were getting ready to release the insurance credentialing course this fall.
Speaker 3:And again at that point, jasmine and I know each other well and have such a great relationship and I think something that really helped was just like we both both and we talk about this a lot in Liberty Clinician and with like the dietitians we work with of like being okay with B minus or C plus work. And we got to this point in September and I had a family member who was hospitalized and I was like by the hospital bedside every day for like three weeks, like literally leading up to when we were supposed to release this course, and I was just like, okay, jasmine, like here's what I can do, like we're still getting this course. And I was just like, okay, jasmine, like here's what I can do, like we're still getting this out. We were trying to time it for Fancy, because I was going to Fancy that last year and I was just like, but there's other, like we're going to put these other things to after, we don't need to do these before the launch, like we can do these after. And she was like, yeah, cool, it's totally fine.
Speaker 3:And so again, like we're both, I think, really flexible with that and just super upfront in communicating, of like hey, this is taking me longer than I expected, or like I need support with this. You know, we also both take dietetic interns in our practice, and so there was also conversations as we were working on this course together, of like okay, what makes the most sense, depending on like the rotations we have and what interns are coming in? Like how might they also be able to having high standards? And also being like, okay, what is like the bare minimum that we need to be done. Being okay with like putting stuff that we were planning to do ahead of time, but like putting it on the back burner.
Speaker 2:I think both of you spoke to such important things when it comes to the partnership aspect and a lot of it too relates for me a lot to just hiring clinicians on my team but I think when it comes to a partnership, like there has to be, I agree, like very much so. Like, Alyssa, what you were saying with energies. I always say to people that I work with for coaching or on the podcast about hiring, like, do you want to talk to this person every week? That's really important, Like if somebody's personality just doesn't vibe with you. It's like you know there's probably clinical skills you can teach, but there's energies and personalities, that and nothing wrong with them. It's just not. I just know I can't lead that and it's going to hurt them and it's going to hurt me and the business and so it's just not a good idea and I think that's really important for a partnership. Even more so. And I actually think you know it seems to me like your working relationship and having had such a good like roots to it has really helped both of you, because it's hard to sometimes know, Cause I think I I certainly have experienced this and see it too of like people you know you become friendly or friends with, maybe works together for another practice, Then you want to start your own thing.
Speaker 2:When you are in a business with somebody, there's so much to it that has to be aligned personality-wise and values and goals and openness for flexibility. If I worked with somebody who was very, very type A and rigid, it would probably help because I'm not that way and I'm ADHD, but that could also be a dilemma for us, right Like that might not work for their personality. So it'd be important that people really like know how you work and other things that can impact you know because, yeah, not everything's always going to be like so straightforward and work out you know how you planned it, maybe nine months prior, which sounds like what happened with both of you, and I think having just that like really great root relationship was really like beneficial for both of you and being open to evolve with things, because I think if you are not open to evolving and being flexible, a partnership might not be a good thing for you. It might just not be the path you need to take and I don't think everyone needs to have a partnership or do things with partners. I think sometimes maybe people want to do that once again, because maybe they're nervous to do it on their own.
Speaker 2:But there are cases, I think, and what Jasmine was speaking to, of just having different expertise on things and different, maybe, strengths in areas and both wanting a similar goal of helping dietitians in this case. So having both of those things be aligned and just knowing each other and working well, I think has made this probably the most easiest, most beneficial that I could be for both of you. And yeah, I don't even know where I'm going with that, but I've seen it kind of go the other way, where people don't maybe always plan for the harder parts that's going to come up with having a partner work with you on any project or business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the other thing coming to mind as you're talking that through, I think what has worked really well with Jasmine and I is like how it's evolved. Like we could have started with her doing like the project management admin stuff and we could have been like, nope, this isn't working and that's not the end of the world, right. And I think that's something else to think about is like we've been able to build on it because we're like, oh no, we work really well together and we like working together, and I think, too, that's something to think about. Like you know, definitely, like knowing yourself is really important. The other person knowing themselves, like having these conversations ahead of time, and maybe it is starting with like smaller things that are easier to walk away from. Because, yeah, same thing, like I've worked with and seen like other business owners who went into like a full-on business partnership together, right, and then you have like all the legal stuff and then, oh my gosh, like trying to untangle all of that, and so I think the like we've been able to build over the years on this because we got to know each other, like, oh wait, yeah, this is a really good person too that I want to keep working with and that I enjoy, even as our business models shift and change.
Speaker 3:That's potentially a takeaway for someone that's like, okay, is there like a smaller thing?
Speaker 3:Like I've done various collaborations over the years with people and most of them haven't gone anywhere outside of like the one thing that we did and I think this is the exception to that like that we've been able to keep building on it, um, and not to say that those other collaborations there was issues because there weren't.
Speaker 3:It was more like, okay, we did this one thing went well and it was like, yeah, and I don't see it really going past this. So that's something to think about, too, is where are you starting? And is there like a smaller thing you can start with to sort of like test the waters and see how you do work together before committing to something big? Because I mean this insurance course, I mean it was conceptualized in in January, it was released in October, uh, so it was a big project for both of us and it did um. I think, jasmine, you had noted like it was actually not something either one of us had on our 2024 business plan or business goals, um, but ended up taking up a good chunk of time, especially in the summer and fall. So, yeah, I think it was great that we knew that we worked well together already, because it definitely was a big chunk of time for both of us this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that, yeah, as you were talking about the evolution of our working relationship, that's something that came to mind for me too, just how it has shifted and changed over the years. I do have to give a shout out to Hannah Turnbull, because at the time she was my business coach and I was having that feeling of like, okay, I think I should be stepping more into my practice, I'm ready for that, but I don't want to stop working with Alyssa. I really enjoy that and she had really encouraged me to say like okay, well, maybe it's going to just look different the way that you work together. So like what could that look like? I think that helped us have like those conversations. Like me and Alyssa have those conversations and like look like, see what we can do, kind of going forward, and so, yeah, that evolution I think was really helpful and it's kind just kind of just like built over time and yeah, like something small to start off, something easier, versus like, yeah, going into like a full-on, you know company together or something like that.
Speaker 2:That's a different list yeah, and I, you know, as I was thinking about this too, as both of you were talking, you know, I think this podcast episode in particular has been a lot around like a partnership for a project in particular, because I think that can look really different than like a business partnership. That's like a private practice and so, like my experience with having a partnership is I think I've shared this on the podcast before but I actually have like a legal partnership with a therapist and we created an umbrella kind of company of our practices. So she and I both had our own separate practices. We wanted to sort of combine and we created this umbrella, and this was in 2020, 2021 maybe, so four years ago. We both are also in very different parts of our lives and she and I are friends, like really good friends, and our friendship has evolved over the years, obviously, but we always just wanted to work together but we just didn't know in what capacity, and so we created the partnership with the goal of, like we'll do something that's going to, you know, be a shared profit eventually. But it sort of evolved because I think we both just had different.
Speaker 2:We both grew our practices separately, so we've always kept our private practices separately and the things we wanted out of those practices and our own goals and our own time. You know, we both have kids. She had two, now I'm about to have two and it's just going to be. You know, it's just our life has been evolving and we have this legal partnership but we actually don't do anything with it and we're sort of continuing to let it evolve together as well. And I think we both sort of had it there in place in the chance that we created something together to say, you know, we're going to make this 50-50 if we have a profit with things, and it sort of just became this sort of like hub for us, of like sharing an office, which has been great Because of that. We were just like open and because we're friends and you know, in private practice separately but together we've been able to just have like an actual friendship partnership more than we needed the legal one, and I think we both realized like we don't need that so much for our businesses to be together but separate, because we had just had it just changed Like everything has. You know, what I wanted to do four years ago is not what I want to do now and I'm fortunate that like she was sort of on the same page with me on that too, because I think it was like a blessing, because then neither of us felt pressured. So I think having but just like knowing each other well, was beneficial for us. But you know, I can certainly, and I know private practice owners who've gone into partnerships together and you know people have left and because ultimately their goals were not aligned and it can be so hard to predict.
Speaker 2:So I think one thing that I'm really taking away from this is like the importance of having like intentional check-ins and like whether it's a legal partnership like we have. You know, we didn't really have a contract. We just kind of did a partnership for tax reasons kind of thing, if we had a profit. But I think having something in place that you're like revisiting because I think that was a learning process for us was like place that you're like revisiting Because I think that was a learning process for us was like we need to talk about this, and so we just, I think, sort of avoided it for a while and then eventually we've just gotten better at just being like what do we want to do here?
Speaker 2:And but I think, really setting that intentional, like check-in, whether it's like just a meeting or like Alyssa and Jasmine are doing, which is more of that, like annual contract maybe, just like revisiting, like where is this going now, and it doesn't have to be so, like formal too, and just like being open to communicate is just, I think, the most important part, really. Um, that's certainly something I'm taking away. Yeah, do any of you. Do you ever have any like additional thoughts on anything on that?
Speaker 1:matter.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to say that it's been like so fun to collaborate and I think that I am enjoying this more and more and like looking for more opportunities of like where else can I do some like collaborative type things?
Speaker 1:Like I think it was like a month ago yeah, about a month ago I hosted like an event in New York City with a few other like in sort of treatment, you know, practices and centers, and like that was really fun. So I think it's been something that I've really enjoyed too, like okay, I want to work with other people because, you know, I work at home, I work and it's like telehealth practice and it can feel lonely at times. So I was like I want to like be talking to like my coworkers, my colleagues, more and like how can I look for these opportunities to do more of that? And so, yeah, I just wanted to bring that into because I feel like I've had a lot of fun being able to think about these like collaborative ways to work with other folks. And, yeah, it's been really great to do it with Alyssa, of course.
Speaker 3:I was going to say the same thing around. Like the word fun was coming to mind for me too, because I think, you know, we've been talking about it, like with profit sharing and division of labor and things like that, and absolutely those are important conversations to have and I think, like you know and Ava, this speaks to it sounds like a little bit what it's turned into for the two of you, you and your business partner of like yeah, you're, it's like friends, you get to share a space together, you get to like chat and like talk to each other Right and like, even though no, like specific profits or projects have come out of that, like it's serving a different purpose, and I think that that is something, too that I think is important to keep in mind of like, okay, what are your goals going into this? Like sure you could have some business goals. And I think to Jasmine's point about those of us like siloed, working mostly online or fully online, like not going into an office, which I never thought I'd miss, but a decade later, I definitely do miss that. And yeah, it is really fun to like have these, these touch points, um and to to build community and just to like do things together.
Speaker 3:Like there's no way this course would have been released this year if it was just me doing it and I see Jasmine shaking her head saying the same thing if it was just her. Like there's no way, like it would not, everything that happened to me in the past year, like it wouldn't have happened. And I think, like and you know, while, yes, it was a lot of work, it also doesn't feel like I didn't feel specifically stressed about it much. Like, again, knowing there was someone else, knowing we were on the same page about it, knowing we gave ourselves lots of time, knowing what we were working towards. And, yeah, I think that fun component is something to think about too. You could do a collaboration or partnership just for fun and make no money, and that's totally fine too, right? It's like bringing something else to your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's so true Because it is. It's like, although my partnership never really became like a profitable one, it became like something that made it easy for offices and like, you know, having like a rental share kind of thing, I mean it makes sense. We both work with e-sweaters, you know. It's a good collaborative space for us and it is fun to get to do it with one of my closest friends, and so it's not something that has to be super serious. And I think, from both of your stories too, what I'm really taking away too and I think about this often myself is like you just sometimes have to try stuff and see.
Speaker 2:For me, I think, learning, having a partnership, I think I wouldn't do as well with a more formal partnership in the future, because I think for me, one of the things that I one of the reasons I want to start a business, because I want it to be able to like take a sick day or like yesterday was a snow day and I just my team, I mean I would say I'm accountable to my team, but it's like it's like, at the end of the day, like I'm not going to be like stressed to somebody else, you know, cause that's my stuff, which is like I'm working through and I've worked through over the years. But I like having that freedom and I think learning about myself in that way is it's going to be sometimes. It's sometimes hard for me to to like handle that as a business owner and I think I just work better in ways. But then there's also, you know, I think from what Jasmine was saying, like she really has enjoyed her experience being in partnerships and it sounds like something that you want to do more of and like I think that's really like the cool part of being an entrepreneur is like nothing has to be permanent and like even with my, you know, with my partnership and the collective like if it evolves, like nobody cares at the end of the day. You know, if it like just becomes nothing, like that's okay, like we tried it and a lot of times with business, like you were saying, the vision, maybe that of what the year was going to be like in January 2024, to what it was completely different. And the beauty of entrepreneurship is we get to sort of make, make it what it is Right and like really evolve with it and there's a beauty in that and just like being true to yourself.
Speaker 2:And I think, coming back to you know what Alyssa was saying about energies and things like that like it's really important's really important to just feel. What do you want this to feel like for you, what do you want your business to feel like? I work with a financial coach and he asked me that he's like how do you want to feel? And he's like it's this important, I promise. And he was like, okay, what do we need to do to get you to feel like that? And I was like that's actually such a good way to think about business because I want to feel at ease in my business, financially and all these other things, and so like, what are the steps I need to take to get there?
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I just so appreciate both of your perspectives on your experience working together and your journeys. So thank you so much for sharing so much today about that. And I do want to conclude with a little quick chat about the course and an upcoming webinar. Obviously, I just talked about the insurance course a little bit, but tell us a little quick chat about the course and an upcoming webinar. You've obviously talked about the insurance course a little bit, but tell us a little bit more about it, where people can access it and the upcoming webinar that you're doing on it.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, so for the course. So we have the insurance credentialing and billing course and you can find that on the liberatedcliniciancom and it's a self-paced course, like Alyssa said six modules where we walk you through the steps of everything you need to do before you get you start credentialing, the credentialing process with insurance, how to do credentialing, and we even go through things like documentation and notes and also billing. So it really is a nice like overview program of all the things that you need to kind of do to get a network with insurance. It's the course I really would have liked to have had when we're hosting a free workshop, kind of talking about accepting insurance, whether you should do it or not, and kind of those like foundational pieces.
Speaker 3:And I'll just add, the insurance credentialing course is approved for 17 CEUs. That's new in the last couple of weeks for registered dietitians. So you can get 17 CEUs from doing it and you have access for two years. And yeah, because we have people that come into the course sort of like dipping their toe in, like kind of thinking about, okay, I'm thinking about starting a business, I think I want to take insurance, we have other people who have businesses and who are like ready to do it. So it's really built for both those types of people.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, the free workshop that we're running is going to be specifically kind of talking about the different options that you have, because there's credentialing yourself, but there's also some other options and some different routes that you might consider going or might have thought about going. And we're going to talk about kind of pros and cons and some things to think about and what's going to work best for you. So, as Jasmine said, the liberatedcliniciancom backslash insurance course will give you all the information on the course and then liberatedcliniciancom backslash insurance workshop you can learn more about that free workshop and it will also just give you a taste of what the course is like, what we're like that free workshop and it will also just give you a taste of what the course is like, what we're like. Hopefully you got some of that today from the podcast but and kind of help you figure out like is it something that I want to move forward with?
Speaker 2:So exciting and I agree, I wish it was. I mean, there's obviously other things available out there, but not always, and I think, too, having both of you be way inclusive dietitians I think the work we do can be a little bit different sometimes, and so I think hearing your perspectives is going to be super vital for folks as well. So I'll make sure to, of course, link both of those things in the show notes today Links for both of those, as well as where you can find Alyssa and Jasmine. And, yeah, thank you guys both again for being here and talking. All things partnerships. Thanks, it was so much fun, it was great. Yeah, thank you for having us too. See you everyone. Bye. Thanks for listening to the RD to CEO podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources mentioned or find more at wwwrdtoceocom. Never miss an episode by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
