The RDtoCEO Podcast
Dive into The RDtoCEO Podcast, hosted by Registered Dietitian and CEO, Eva Haldis, where she shares her journey in entrepreneurship, with discussions on the basics on building a private practice and becoming a confident CEO. The RDtoCEO Podcast is your go-to resource for mastering the art of transitioning from a dietitian to a successful CEO.
The RDtoCEO Podcast
Balancing Motherhood & Business Growth: A Business Coaching Session ft. Shelby Hirschman, RD, LD
In today's episode, Eva is joined by Shelby Hirshmann RD LD from Good Body Nutrition for a business coaching call. As a mom with limited time, Shelby is seeking clarity on where to focus her energy in her growing business. We dive into her challenges, goals, and strategies to help her prioritize what truly matters for both her business and her family!
Shelby Hirschman is a wife, mom, and registered dietitian. She is the owner and founder of Good Body Nutrition, LLC—a nutrition counseling company that strives to help women restore relationships with their food, body, and self. You can follow along with Shelby’s work at www.goodbodynutrition.com, and can contact her at shelby@goodbodynutrition.com for service inquiries.
Where to Find Shelby:
- Website: www.goodbodynutrition.com
- Instagram: @goodbody_nutrition
Episodes Mention:
- Balancing Parenthood as an Entrepreneur from Dietitian Side Hustle
Listen on Apple Podcasts: Dietitian Side Hustle - Being a Mom & Running A Business from Weight Inclusive Innovators
Listen on Spotify: Weight Inclusive Innovators
Want a question answered on the podcast? Send me a message, or a text message, and maybe it'll be featured in an episode!
You can send me a message on IG -
https://www.instagram.com/evahaldis_rd or https://www.instagram.com/rdtoceo
Find more about RDtoCEO at https://www.rdtoceo.com
For episode updates and coaching packages, check out our website - www.rdtoceo.com
Affiliate Links Often Mentioned:
Gusto for Payroll - https://gusto.com/h/eva6486
Practice Better- https://practicebetter.partnerlinks.io/evahaldis9298
*Please note that while we strive to provide valuable insights, our podcast is not a replacement for personalized legal or financial counsel. We strongly advise consulting with qualified professionals for specific advice tailored to your individual circumstances.*
Welcome to the RD to CEO podcast. I'm your host, eva Haldis, registered dietitian, who one day found herself a whole CEO of a business. Join me as we navigate the world of entrepreneurship so you can go from being an RD who sees clients in private practice to a confident CEO growing the practice of your dreams.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the RD, to CEO podcast.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode. Very excited for today's episode, we have another business coaching call. Today is with Shelby Hirschman, who is a wife, mom and redshirt dietitian. She's the owner and founder of Good Body Nutrition LLC, a nutrition counseling company that strives to help women restore relationships with their food, body and self. Shelby and I had a great conversation, especially about being moms and how do we prioritize growing our business and what tasks to focus on when we are so limited in time. During our call I think it was actually right before we recorded I was asking Shelby about how she heard about the podcast and she had referenced an episode that I did on the Weight Inclusive Innovators podcast where I talked a lot about being a mom and a business owner, and I've also done another podcast on the Dietitian Side Hustle podcast, where I talked a lot about being a mom and a business owner.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to link both of those episodes in the show notes if that is something that might resonate with you. I think also, this topic is not just for people who are parents, but also if maybe you have a full-time job and your private practice is your side hustle and you have limited time, this might be a really interesting conversation too, of like how do I prioritize what needs to be done in my practice. So it's going to be a really great episode. If you're interested in having a complimentary coaching, call yourself, which would, of course, be recorded as an episode. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast to talk about a business topic that you might be passionate about, head over to wwwrd2cocom under the podcast tab and hit be a podcast guest. You can fill out some questions there and we can hopefully have you on as a guest on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Before we get into the episode today, we actually had a listener question come in which I was really excited to get. So I'm going to go through that first and then we'll get into the episode with Shelby. So this question came from a listener in Farmington, new Mexico. They said Hi Eva, I'm an R&D in private practice and have a question related to the paying yourself slash profit. First episode how does one have different accounts slash buckets that are protected from quick transfers of money without having completely different banks for each account? I have my accounts in Wells Fargo, which doesn't appear to have an option for different buckets, and it's very, very easy to move money around a good and bad thing, such a great question. And if you haven't listened to the episode, it's on the episode on how to pay yourself as a dietitian, where I talk about the profit first method, and a lot of the profit first method is around kind of distributing money in these different buckets. I've actually done both things where I've had accounts at different banks and accounts within the same bank. So I actually had the opportunity to do both things and I think with either one of those things you can still do a quick transfer. Obviously it's much easier if it's in the same bank.
Speaker 2:And last year I started seeing my tax account go up and up and I had checked in with my account like mid through the year, probably like in the summertime, and the estimated amount that he had given me I had already saved in my tax account. So I was like, oh cool, I'm good now and I still was saving money in there. But it sort of gave me this green light to use that money and transfer it, which I would not recommend doing because I didn't take into account that the revenue actually grew in the second half of the year. So then when I ended up owing taxes it was much higher than what I actually had saved in that account. So that was a big lesson learned for me. Do not pull from your tax account ahead of time because you never know what you're going to end up owing at the end of the year or the beginning of the next year, and you don't want to get yourself in a situation where you don't have money to pay your taxes. So that was sort of my lesson in that kind of control aspect.
Speaker 2:You know, the idea of profit first is by doing this, by having these different buckets or accounts. That is for taxes, is for profit. There just has to be sort of this level of like that money is now accounted for and it's not for me to spend and to use for my leisure, and so I think that's just going to be a little bit of a mental aspect of it that you have to create for yourself to say like that's just what this money is going to be for, because you don't want to get into a situation like I did, where I didn't have enough money for the taxes and had to like eventually it was fine and I was able to pay for it, but I was a little bit anxious for a couple of months there when I was making sure that I had enough money for that. So I think if you know yourself and it feels like it might be too tempting, then maybe open a separate bank account. That's actually what I did, was I opened a separate business checking account with a different bank and I ended up finding one that had like a good deal. That was like join our business checking account and get $300 once you deposit X amount of money in here, and for a long time I did that. I just kind of kept it separate completely.
Speaker 2:I actually just recently closed that because I was finding having too many bank accounts was actually like not working for me, and so I use a little bit of a different system. Now I use more of like a bucket system with a budgeting tool that I use. But it's really just kind of knowing yourself and working through that mental piece of let me not spend this money that I've now put into these other buckets. So I think hopefully that answers your question. Thank you so much for sending it over and I definitely feel the struggle with that. If you also have a question in the future, you can shoot me a message by going to the link in the show notes that says send me a text or send me a message, and I'm happy to answer it on the podcast. As always, make sure you're following along wherever you get your podcasts and, without further ado, let's get into our coaching call today with Shelby. Hi, shelby, welcome to the RD to CEO podcast. I'm so excited for us to chat today, hi.
Speaker 1:Eva, I'm excited to be here. I have done a couple of podcast interviews before, but never in this format, so it's a new opportunity and I'm excited for it.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for volunteering to kind of talk through some business stuff with our listeners and I'm excited to chat with you more today. Let's start with you telling us a little bit about yourself, your business and sort of what led you to wanting to reach out to one of these coaching calls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. Okay, so my business is Good Body Nutrition. I'm a private practice and it's just me right now. Probably similar to a lot of your listeners, I work in that health at every size non-diet space, do a lot of eating disorder recovery, intuitive eating work, but I also do some more like general non-diet, you know, focused nutrition, medical nutrition therapy, from that non-diet approach. And I guess maybe something that niches me down a bit more in that space is that most of the like, the biggest part of my caseload comes from a specific religious community. That's kind of, yeah, my corner in that space. I do work with others outside of that community too, but a lot of my marketing is targeted towards that group and I'd say 80 to 90% of my clients tend to come from that specific community. And, yeah, I've been in practice for about three years.
Speaker 1:I think a big part of my story, my business story that I know we're going to get into more, is that I'm a mom.
Speaker 1:I have three young kids. I have a seven-year-old, which that feels crazy. I don't know if she's still considered young, but a seven-year-old. I have a four-year-old and I have a one-year-old, and so I actually have pretty limited dedicated work hours in this season of life and that's what my husband and I have decided and intentionally structured our life. As such, I don't anticipate that changing in the near future, but it does create a structure and even some boundaries in what I can do in my business and the decisions that I make, and so that, I think, is going to be a big, you know, at the heart of what we're talking about today too, as I'm thinking about different ways of growing my practice and exploring, you know, just like different steps, while also keeping that like reality and context of my life very much in mind, which I feel like sometimes isn't quite there, and some of the other, like business conversations and stuff that I listened to, so anything else that I didn't speak to, that would be helpful for me too.
Speaker 2:No, that was really helpful and thanks for sharing that. I certainly can relate to the limited work hours, although and we were talking offline I have one child, so I can imagine, with three at home, two of which I guess a one-year-old, is that considered toddler already by the time they're one, he's still the baby. You know, having at least one toddler and one baby at a seven-year-old is a lot, uh, a lot to handle and so, yeah, it can be really hard to figure out, like how do I sort of what do I do with my business? I guess that's the only other question for our conversation today is like sort of what you're hoping to get out of it and what is? What is the stuck point that you're feeling with all that being said about your business?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I think what I am looking for is to just have more clarity and where to focus my time and energy.
Speaker 1:You know I have lots of different ideas that are exciting to me for my business, lots of different things that you know I've considered and looked at.
Speaker 1:And if I had, you know, way more hours then I would probably do a lot more of that, but the reality is that I'm kind of more in a place of slow, contented growth. So, yeah, I think I just want to kind of process that and explore some of the different avenues that I'm considering. Yeah, and again, just keeping that context of my family structure in mind, I will add I don't think I mentioned this before, but you know, depending on the week and if I've got sick kids or like extra events and what's going on, my hours can be limited anywhere from like 10 hours to 18, maybe, if I'm really lucky, 20 hours a week of just dedicated work time where I have child care, but, yeah, it probably tends to be closer to that like 15 hour mark, and so, yeah, you know, lots of big vision and not a lot of time. So I need to like really prioritize what makes the most sense for me and my business and my family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can also certainly relate to, you know, not having a lot of time. I think I've said this on my podcast before. This is like the first time for me that I've had about like 20 hours a week since my son was born maybe a little bit more now, but it started with like eight and then it was like 10. And so, without the variable of like if he's sick and childcare falls through. So it can be hard sometimes with having and I think a lot of us too, as entrepreneurs which is what kind of sounds like for you is like a lot of big.
Speaker 2:We get into this work as entrepreneurs and not like joining another practice, probably because we want to, you know, be the one that comes with the fun ideas and that feels exciting. But it can feel so hard as a mom to sort of like I can still get that feeling of like that's the decision that our family made and it comes from a very privileged place and I'm like so grateful for it. And also I really like working and it's so hard to like have to always sort of like put the brakes on things and feel like I can't. I'm like slowly moving, slowly moving, and like I just can't get to this thing and it can feel very overwhelming of like then what do I focus on, which is kind of what it sounds like where you're at now, of like, okay, with this little time, like what can I actually?
Speaker 1:where should I focus? Yes, yes, exactly, you captured that perfectly. It's like, yeah, I feel very blessed, very lucky to have the structure that we have in our family. I like it and, yeah, like I have a lot of ideas and need to know like the path forward that works in the context of my life, which is why I was really excited to talk with you, specifically, after listening to your podcast, I recently learned about it and, yeah, and just hearing your story and your journey of you know, I mean it sounds like in a lot of ways, you started your business and your practice really close to the time that you also started your family or had your first kid, and so, yeah, I am excited for your perspective that you'll be able to offer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like, as moms, a lot of times our practices become kind of the side hustle to the parenting that we do, especially with little ones and especially if we're at home with them. So it can feel like a weird dynamic, because it's like, well, this is my only full. I always say it's like this is my job, it's my full-time thing that I'm doing, but I'm still very part-time, and so it can feel sort of confusing too, and so I'm glad that we can relate on this topic. So well, tell us then, I guess, what are the visions? So, if you had time and you know your kids may be older or you had more child care, what, what are the things that you wish you could do? You know, let's like dream big and then we can kind of scale it to how do we get there with?
Speaker 1:that's a good question. It's so messy in my brain though, right, because there's like a million ideas, um, I think you know big, like where do I see myself in the future, even if it's not like in the next year? Right, I think that I would eventually like to have a group practice and, yeah, I'd like to, you know, continue serving that kind of niche and that religious community that I've found, and be able to serve more people. I also we haven't really gotten into these details yet, but up until this point I have been private pay. I would really love to get to a point of being able to accept insurance, to be credentialed and bill insurance, so that's another big goal that I have too. So I think, yeah, that is.
Speaker 1:And then there's other stuff on top of that. Right, I'd love to SEO and have lots of like great clinician referral partners and, you know, have that be a steady support for my group too, and, you know, if I'm accepting insurance, also kind of opening the door for more like physician referrals, so on and so forth. I feel like I could release a floodgate of like you know, all of these different little ideas, but I think, big picture, that feels like a place I like to go so group practice that accepts insurance, and I think I would, in that, probably step back a bit more from one-on-one client care, although I do still really love that I also get excited about, like the CEO stuff. So, yeah, I'll stop myself there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it sounds like some of the first things you were saying, which is like the group practice and I think you summarized it well as the group practice that takes insurance and the other stuff is sort of the things that'll help you build that, like the SEO and all that stuff. So we can certainly talk about that, but it sounds like the big thing in mind is credentialing with insurance and maybe growing your practice. So what are the things now that feel maybe limiting or where do you feel like unsure or unclear of like where to go or what parts of those things are feeling unclear or making you maybe feel nervous or second guess? Jumping into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I think a lot of it is. You know, even in those like bigger picture ideas, I gave there's like a thousand other subsets of steps to kind of support those things. Right and so, and again, I'm so limited on time that I then start to like really get overwhelmed of like okay, yes, I hear the argument that can be made for any one of these like different things of like having a newsletter, blogging, taking insurance, hiring on, so you know, like I could go on and on and on, and I have such limited amount of time so I can't do it all. And so where do I start?
Speaker 1:I think you know that time factor and also discerning where do I start has been one of the yeah, just kind of the initial barrier.
Speaker 1:I will say, in probably like the past one and a half to two weeks, I feel like I'm starting to get like a bit more clarity than I had before. You know, if you had asked me three weeks ago, it was just like word vomit of all the different things that I could do, and I think that then I was able to kind of start creating I don't know in my brain. I kind of separate it into these different ideas of like, okay, do I focus, like kind of stay where I'm at now, you know, and how my practice is functioning, how it's organized, but then just really emphasize, leaning into building clinician relationships so that I can increase my referrals. I may be kind of jumping ahead of myself because I haven't really talked much yet about where my clients currently are coming from. So I don't know, do you want me to rewind and kind of get into that? Because I think that also kind of I see that needing to shift and wanting to shift that.
Speaker 2:Well, it sounds like that would probably in having that conversation of like where you're getting your clients, is that more of like a concern, of like well then, I need to like strengthen that in order to hire somebody. Is that sort of the concern, I think?
Speaker 1:it's part of it. And also to, yeah, like, a lot of my clients have come from social media yeah, most of my clients and I don't want that to continue to be like the main source of my incoming clients, and I have you know, yeah, I'll stop there. So that's the shift that you're, regardless of kind of what I do, moving forward. I know that that's a shift that I'm going to make. And so then from there, kind of, yeah, some of those different pillars I was kind of starting to explore, I think, are other ways of introducing new clients to me without having to rely heavily on social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like a lot of these things the social media aspect, which I do want to talk about, insurance, it all sort of culminates into the ultimate goal of then having a group practice. It sounds like If those things were sort of figured out, the group practice would still be sort of the end goal. Is that correct? Would you say that's?
Speaker 1:I would say it's correct. I don't know how like, I don't know realistically, if I do see myself now being like like, if everything else was in line, would I be ready to jump into a group practice. I don't know yet. So I think now it's like yes, I see that vision in the future and now I'm looking to reorganize and structure my business in such a way where I can like strengthen its sustainability strengthening, like, client acquisition without to lean heavily on social media.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit about social media and what's feeling maybe off for you on that.
Speaker 1:Sure, I mean, I just don't love it. I think that obviously it plays an important role, right, that's definitely not to villainize it, I just like, for me, I get very bogged down by it. So when I started my practice about three years ago, right, I was like excited, there's all this energy and like making content for social media just like felt easy. Right, I was putting a lot of attention into that because I didn't even really have clients at that point that you should be keeping up with as well. So I started out strong and, like I said, I mean, a large percentage of my new clients were finding me through social media, which is surprising because I have less than a thousand followers. But it was just like the right people were finding me there and so that was like keeping me like steadily growing in my caseload.
Speaker 1:But then you know just the reality of like, okay, I don't really love having to like think about this all the time. I don't love having to create content all the time. I don't love being on social media frequently as it is, and then also just like again, like family life stuff, right, like life lifed quite a bit. There are some hard things happening. I eventually got pregnant with my third and was so sick, and so even before I was like intentionally stepping away from social media in my practice I had like pulled away, and so I think it was kind of later realizing this is not the structure that I want to keep building my business off of. And so how do I want to adjust in a way that feels like more in line with my values and just my personality, probably more than even my values, right, just like what I enjoy and what I don't? What do I need to do to kind of shift that? Did I go off on a tangent or did that answer the question?
Speaker 2:No, that totally made all the sense and definitely helped. And that's really awesome that you were able to use social media to get clients and really build your case, because I often talk about not needing to do that because that has been my path Because, same as you were saying, I just never felt like I liked it and for me, and I think for a lot of folks, it can be so hard. But I think because you do have such a niche kind of like group that you're speaking to, it can definitely become easier to find those clients but for a lot of people become sort of burnout central and just not really where they want to focus their efforts. So, since you kind of, it sounds like, have already backed away from it a little bit, have you seen a drop in new clients coming through the door?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 1:It was for a while it was still pretty steady, because around the time that I had started like pulling back quite a bit from social media, at that point I had also like made some relationships with other therapists who had then started referring me clients, right, and so for a while it was like, you know, it was maybe like social media wasn't the majority as much of the majority at least anymore of where my new clients were coming from.
Speaker 1:I would say, though, like in the last few months, I have seen that start to drop more. Actually, again, it's not really surprising to me because of how little I'm putting into social media at this point, but I also think it is a reality too, just of, like the financial strain that a lot of people are facing right now. And, yeah, I think I'm starting to see the impact of that as, being someone who also has been private pay, despite honestly, like really wanting to, to like be able to offer more accessible options, I can get into this more too, if we decide, but I've I've kind of felt stuck like, well, private pay is all I can really manage right now. Right, and so that's. I feel like in the last month, I've started to see things slow down quite a bit, with clients reaching out to me after finding me on social media. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I mean it makes sense, especially with, like the way social media works.
Speaker 2:It's like the more you put out, the more the algorithm you know shows you and it can sort of impact that, but it sounds like doing less of that.
Speaker 2:There was still some inquiries coming in from other referral sources, which is great, and so I think ultimately what sounds like is like how do we sort of maybe shift away from social media and cultivate a different sort of referral source and use your time I don't want to say wisely, because there's only so much time and so I think this is really where, and then of course, we'll talk about the insurance piece, and I think that's also going to sort of come into play, because a lot of it is sort of like okay.
Speaker 2:So how do we get these referrals, like the marketing that we need to focus on, and if moving away from social media and then getting credentials with insurance, that can also increase some of the referrals that you may get, because doctors tend to refer to folks who take insurance more, or maybe a therapist in your area don't accept insurance but you do, so it can become like more of an incentive for people to reach out. I can certainly see that. So I think all of it makes a lot of sense. Do you currently track anywhere, like how many inquiries you're getting, where they're coming from? Do you have anything that shows you that information now?
Speaker 1:I don't, and I actually I've been hearing you talk about it and I know I mean I've heard from other sources too right, of the importance of tracking it and it hasn't happened. So it's on my radar of like, yeah, I really need to start doing that happen. So it's on my radar of like yeah, I really need to start doing that, but it's not happening currently.
Speaker 2:I know I talk about it all the time and I also talk about how much I need to like get it together and just put my inquiry sheet that I have because I have it created, and I'll send you the template that I have. I just don't have an instruction page, which is why, you know, just sidebar, it's not available to download yet, but one day will be, once I can find time, if you know. You know, but it's such a, it makes such a, you know, game changer. Like I said, I'll send you my template that I have, because that's really where you can find the information of like okay, here's how many people I'm getting a month, here's where they're coming from, and then, if you can say, okay, so I'm going to maybe focus more on like meeting therapists, more. That seems to be, and I think in our work that we do, it's like I always say, like where are your clients going to find you for eating disorder work? It tends to be a therapist, I would say that's where most of our referrals come from as well. Some come from Google, but we don't even do a lot in the SEO website stuff either. So it's possible, I think, to do it in many different ways, and tracking that data can be just the most helpful thing, because then it can tell you, okay, my marketing efforts are working or they're not. Here's where I need to focus more on. Clearly, I'm getting more and more referrals from therapists. That's working. Let's keep doing that.
Speaker 2:So I think starting to just keep track of that information will just be one helpful, and then down the line, when you're like okay, I'm ready to hire.
Speaker 2:Now I can see, okay, how many people tend to come to, how many inquiries we tend to get around this time of year. You know I have that data now for like the last like two or three years, so I can compare it, which makes it really helpful because I can see where there's trends and then where there's just like some summers are busy, some summers are not. March is always busy, so I'm like, all right, march will always probably be busy. So, yeah, I'll definitely send you that after we talk. It's just like a thing you can start working on. But since we're going to like sort of shift away from the social media piece, there's this, like you know, you've kind of mentioned the credentialing stuff and then, ultimately the group practice. So I guess would it be helpful to talk a little bit about credentialing, or is there something else that you feel like would be helpful for us to kind of go into?
Speaker 1:I think that it would be helpful to talk about it, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what are some hesitations so far?
Speaker 1:The time, the time I think it's like a whole new skill, right, it's not something that is intuitive, at least not to me. I did work for another private practice for a while before I started my own practice and I was there as they went from, you know, being private pay to transitioning to being credentialed with insurance, and it was messy, right, like as I think anyone would expect. And so, yeah, I think it's just feeling nervous of like, do I really have the capacity and the time to learn how to do this? I think there's also, just like I hear a lot about problems that come up with, like billing and running into issues a lot. And again, you know, like the overarching theme obviously for me is I have such a limited amount of time. It feels scary of like, can I really like realistically keep up with this whole extra new role that I've not been doing at all, right, like now I'm just automatically charging people done. Role that I've not been doing at all. Right, like now I'm just automatically charging people done, and then trying to add all of that on top of everything else that I'm currently doing. That's been the biggest barrier, I will say, you know, and so in the past it's been just like I just kind of in my mind, have said that's not an option for me in this season. I want it to be someday, and it's not right now.
Speaker 1:I think I mentioned I mean even in the last month my caseload. I discharged several clients all around the same time and so my caseload's been lower now than it has been in a while and honestly, that's given me time and space to really think like, okay, what is next? What is the vision? What do I want to like restructure and move, because before I'm just like busy, busy, busy, right, like that's all I can do is just keep up with what I've got. So in this space right now it's like okay, maybe this is something that I could dive into, or at least like dip my toe and slowly wade into. But I think I also still feel nervous of like well, maybe it feels more feasible now because my caseload's a little lower, and then, once that starts to pick back up, well, I just feel like I'm drowning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I think all things that are fair, and I think a lot of times the internet and Facebook probably makes it feel way scarier than it is. I certainly think it is, and, of course, dietitians type A perfectionists, so we're like we want to do everything correctly the first time and so that it prevents us from doing anything. I'm curious what the clients that you currently have, or have you seen? Do you find that a lot of or a number of clients end up wanting to discharge because they can't afford it anymore? Like, has that come up with either current clients? Or you know people that have reached out but didn't end up booking with you because they needed somebody to accept insurance? Like, has that seemed like a barrier so far for your clients?
Speaker 1:I would say in the last six months it's come up a lot more than it used to. So I mean definitely, I mean probably. Even in the last three to four months I am running into that more and I, of course, like I understand that right. I always tell my clients I want them to like honor their financial health too. So it is a barrier that I'm seeing coming up more often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think, and it's hard. I mean there are so many companies coming out too now, like these, like Nourish and Bay and Berry Street, that it's like sort of this new. A lot of people worry about the competition, but I think it's just giving people more options for insurance providers. But I don't necessarily think that that needs to be the path to go down. But it can you know, because I think there's a need for it, which is why the companies are, you know, growing. But I think there's a need for it, which is why the companies are growing.
Speaker 2:So if clients have already sort of articulated that to you, or more and more people, it sounds like it is a need, maybe in the community that you're serving, and it sounds like it's something that would be in alignment with what you'd like to do. Would you say the main hesitation to it is just like the overwhelm of not knowing how to do it and can you handle it, and, of course, private pay is just easier, generally speaking. Kind of the main thing that's holding you back, would you say Just the hesitation of doing it all.
Speaker 1:For sure. Yeah, just like, can I realistically keep up with this and have time to teach myself how to do it? That's the hesitation. If I felt like it was something that I could incorporate and keep up with I mean, obviously there's always like a growth curve, right but if I felt like that was something, if I was confident that I could realistically do it in the structure of my life and my business, I would be all in, because it is like you said it's definitely more in line with my values to have more accessible care.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I think you know, like I said, it makes a lot of sense that there's so much hesitation, because I do think everybody panics and I certainly did. But I, you know, I accepted insurance probably like or I started the process of it probably like eight weeks after my son was born, because I was like I want to start taking insurance and now this has to be my full like spent of your money, because a lot of times and it's important to find a biller who maybe is like in your area, who knows the insurance plans well I've learned the most about insurance from having billers. The first bill I worked with really helped me tell me what I needed to set up. They didn't like set up for me, but they were like get an account here, get an account here, set this up here. And I was like okay, and so I just did those things and they would tell me things and then I would just learn from there and it's quickly. I mean, I think a lot of plans generally have some consistency, at least with what to expect, and so you learn quickly like, okay, this plan specifically covers this much, this plan this much, and the biller I find for me has been the most helpful.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people do it on their own first, which is fine if you have no kids and all the time in the world. I had 10 hours a week and I was doing my own billing in the beginning. I mean I couldn't, because it's such a learning curve, especially when you know at first things are getting denials and you don't really know why. To have somebody that has like expert knowledge on this to help navigate that process, who can be like here's why this got denied. I'm going to call them and figure it out. We need this to like resubmit it To do all that stuff I think can make such a big difference. Is that something you ever thought about wanting like doing?
Speaker 1:I. So I looked into Berry Street I think that's called right and I don't even know, like if you would technically put them in a bill or category, because you know it's not like one individual person that I hired and honestly, like the pay, like when I looked at the numbers, it just it wouldn't work because I do still, at the end of the day, like even if I have tons of client, new client inquiries coming in, I can only see so many people in my limited time. So what they could pay me, it just wasn't going to be realistic. I haven't looked into like hiring an individual biller that's not associated like with one of those nutrition billing groups like Fay or Berry Street.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that is intriguing to me, yeah, I think there's obviously a lot of appeal on, like the Berry Street Fay Nourish aspect because they do. You know they'll say they'll do insurance verification for people, they'll do this, they'll do that, but they tend to pay like a flat rate. It's almost like working for a group practice. Honestly, I spoke to somebody who works for one of them and like in Pennsylvania, so I know the reimbursement rates and so she gets a flat rate for all of them, which I'm like, which is what my team gets. But my team also gets, you know, benefits, a supportive environment. We pay for education, supervision, all these other things they're doubling to employees. So a lot of dietitians are which, honestly, might be working for some people, but I don't think it needs to be the route. I really would say, like for you.
Speaker 2:It might be helpful to find, like an individual biller or someone that does like billing. There are people and companies that do for dietitians. I worked with one of the ones that was sort of recommended often on the Facebook groups and then I later started working with someone who's more local that I was like a referral. So if you're in any Facebook groups, specifically in St Louis, for dietitians, ask, hey, does anyone have an insurance bill they love working with, because often what an insurance bill will do is they'll take a percentage of what you get reimbursed. And the other thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to credential with every insurance plan in your area.
Speaker 2:Some dieticians that I work with, who I do coaching with, who are in Pennsylvania, we have a range where our lowest payer it's like $95, where our highest for a follow-up, our highest, is like $135. I have coaching clients that just credential with the high-paying ones because that's what's going to make sense for them and then by paying a biller 5% to 7%, they're still getting a good chunk of that back to them, versus one of these bigger companies that's going to just pay you a flat rate like $50 to $75, right, so you'll actually be getting like a majority of that income. A small percentage might be going to a biller, you know, ultimately, but in the bigger scheme of things you're still making, you know, 95% of that income.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I like that idea, and it hasn't been something I've really looked into in this. Yeah, I haven't looked into it at all, so that's definitely a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I would start there. I think those local Facebook groups can be really helpful just to say like what's the best? Or even like, if you're in, are you on Facebook? Yes, just for groups. Basically, I think I would have left by now if I wasn't for, literally, the dietitian groups.
Speaker 2:I'm in the insurance credentialing group. You can even like search in there St Louis insurance, but you can even type it in. Or if there is, like I said, a local one asking about biller, the biller can tell you probably the insurance rates that you know if they work with dietitians in your. Or you can ask in those groups what are the best. You know uh, insurance coverage that people get in our, in our state. It's going to vary depending on it and then you can sort of decide. You know people. We can't technically say how much, but I give a range. You can say like it's around this, you know um, and then you can see like is that feasible? Can I sustain that financially for my family? And then making the decision around the biller.
Speaker 2:I think it just helped with some of the process of it, also some of the more basic stuff. I think I actually have an episode on the steps to get credentialed. It's a lot more simple, but once again for me, I had, like I said, an eight week old and my biller was just like do this, do this, do this, and I just started learning from there. I mean, we all went through an internship, we all started our first day as an intern in a hospital not knowing how to do a two feet, and then by the end of it, we're like doing these calculations in five seconds. It's the same thing, right Like your brain has the capacity to learn this information and just you don't need to know it perfectly right away.
Speaker 1:I Like I said before, I think initially I just had it very concretely in my mind of like that isn't accessible for me, so it's nice to approach it with, like some fresh perspective. One follow up question Do you feel like you have any things you would recommend of like what to look for in finding a good biller?
Speaker 2:For sure, I think there's a lot of important questions. One do they have experience working with dietitians? I have a and I have someone I can refer. Mine is like a very local one so I don't think she probably works. I don't think she, I think she's pretty much local, but I know another coaching client's working with like a newer company that's working with dietitians. But I think people that have experience primarily working with billing dietitians I would also ask what communication do they provide?
Speaker 2:One of the things that's important to me has always been if a client has a copay or deductible, that they know about it before we charge them, that they know about it before we charge them. You know we've created systems over the years on like how to make that an efficient process. But I never want to just like charge somebody's card without them knowing that we're doing it. So having a biller that's like, hey, fyi, this person's came back, it's a copay, you know. And having a system. So, asking about communication styles, you know what, how they sort of work like, what do they do? What EMR do you use currently sort?
Speaker 1:of work, Like what do they do?
Speaker 2:What EMR do you use? Currently I use Healthy Healthy. I believe Healthy has like an integrated billing thing, but I believe it's sort of similar to what Practice Better used to be. So I use Practice Better and they have an integration now where we can like bill directly in there and we still have to sort of create the claims but before we have to create what's called a CMS 1500 form which honestly pulls most the information and it just says you just have to kind of make sure the date is correct and the codes are in there. It would take me like 15 minutes to do one.
Speaker 2:So that was something that was important. My first biller didn't do that, so I was hiring a VA to do it, because I was was like I just my brain was just not like I cannot spend all this time doing it. And so when I hired my second builder, I was like can you do this, cause I can't? And she was like okay, I'll do that. So it's like what parts do they do? Some? Some are like we only do we submit it. You have to create the claim, but we'll submit it and we'll, you know, let you know what is owed or whatever it might be. That's important to see of what steps do they help with? And I think it might be one of those things.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes it's a personality thing. I think the same thing with hiring an employee Do you want to talk to this person? Do you feel like you have a good rapport that you've built? Do they feel like someone you can go to with questions? I think when I was first starting out, I was like I'm very new, I don't know anything, and then sometimes they would talk to me like I knew what they were talking about. I was like I don't know what this means, so I really need to break it down. And my current biller is so like she'll just send us information, I'll text her and she just gives me the info that I'm looking for, and so that was important to me too. So I think it's just kind especially knowing that you're going to be new to the process to help you sort of do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really helpful All of that feedback. Thank you.
Speaker 2:And obviously I talk a lot about, you know, my tracking sheets.
Speaker 2:Like I'm kind of obsessed with keeping track of information and spreadsheets but probably because of my ADHD and also being a mom, right Like our brains have a million things going on in them at the same time.
Speaker 2:So it's like as soon as you're done working, you're probably onto mom duties and like completely forgetting stuff.
Speaker 2:So for me, like the only way to keep track of things has been to like have spreadsheets with different information. So like I have one that I use now which I can also send you is, you know, and this is for my team really but it's to keep track of the process for credentialing of like what links do I need to press to credential somebody with Aetna, you know, when I hire somebody new, and then where are they at in the steps of the process? Have they done this? When do they submit, just so I can have it somewhere that I can like keep track of that information. So having a space for you can be with that and also even once they, like you, decide to take like the Blue Cross, blue Shield plan in your state, you know, once you find out what the information is, you can kind of keep track of, like okay, they tend to cover this many sessions you know. So that way when a new client comes in you can kind of like reference that until it's second nature for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that sounds amazing. I think a lot of those tracking things. They just make so much sense, right, but in my brain I'm always like I don't have time. I don't have the time to spend time like writing out what I'm doing and tracking these things, but I think that very obviously comes back to bite me. So I think that idea is really cool. It sounds super helpful.
Speaker 2:So I think that idea is really cool and sounds super helpful. Yeah, and I think that's why I get that Like not everybody wants to like create a spreadsheet and I somehow find that interesting. So that's why I have some like templates that one day listeners will be available one day, but I'll send them to you, of course. So I'm curious, like after obviously talking through this, like where your, where your head is at, what are you feeling? Let's just check in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's been helpful. I like the idea of looking into a biller and considering that as an option, that as an option, and I mean ultimately, even if I decided like, long term that's not what I wanted to stick with, I think having a smaller goal to start moving toward, like is really what I need, like I said, to kind of start waiting and dipping my toe in, because for so long I've been afraid to like touch it at all. So I like that idea a lot. You know, even just the the idea of being more intentional about tracking you know my performance, performance indicators and tracking or writing out you know how I do, what I do, so that I'm not having to spend so much time reminding myself what to do. Yeah, all super helpful feedback, I think, making me feel more I don't know, I guess just less overwhelmed by the idea of moving forward with exploring insurance, for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, good, I'm glad that it feels a little bit less overwhelming.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I think certainly the feeling of figuring it all out by yourself or having to work with a company that's going to pay you 45% of the reimbursement feels like well, what do I do with that?
Speaker 2:And I think the answer for everybody is going to be different.
Speaker 2:I think, once again, coming back to the structure of our life as moms who have less time than all the time, having some support, I think a biller is, like I said, a low cost thing as long as they're not taking, like I think a typical is like five to 7% of the reimbursement, so it's not something that's like a huge chunk and could just be helpful support for you, given that you have limited time and can't be sitting on the phone with insurance companies figuring this out yourself and then eventually, from there and, I think, coming back to like your ultimate goal of group practice, like knowing now do I want to take insurance, how much are they going to reimburse?
Speaker 2:Because that's going to make a big. It's going to make a big difference into when you decide okay, if I hire somebody, how much can I pay, given how much I'm going to be charging, whether you stay with private pay or go insurance. So I think having that figured out now will help set you up in the future. And then, if you end up taking insurance and being able to market that when you start working on those other referrals seeing okay, I am getting more clients now I can start to like, feel like maybe it's time to grow my team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that how that builds off of each other. Yeah, I have this is maybe a wild card, but kind of a follow-up question in line with a group practice. Is that okay for me to go ahead and ask you about that? Of course, so you know, I alluded to earlier that I don't necessarily know that I feel ready right now in this season to jump into groupably, but I did post on one of the dietitian Facebook groups and was kind of, you know, exploring these different ideas of like do I do this? Do I take insurance? Do I even explore the idea of a group practice so that I have less time that's dependent on me being like face-to-face with a client, which honestly was an idea not necessarily that you introduced to me, but that just your perspective was really different on it than I had heard really from anyone else. It was very intriguing to me, like that shift that I guess viewing group practice and that shift in roles as a way for your time to align better with your season of life. But all of that to say so, I was just, you know, I'm thinking, exploring ideas.
Speaker 1:I posted this question in a group and, honestly, all the feedback I got from group practitioners was I've been in this position before. I recommend you wait until you have full-time child care, right, Like it's a lot. I would wait, and I totally get where that comes from. And again, I don't think, even if they had said the opposite, I don't know that I would be ready right now to jump into group practice. But I'm curious about your take on that because I think that's kind of different than how you approached things. And yeah, again, I just kind of resonate with your story.
Speaker 2:So I don't know why people like scare everybody away from everything based on, like their own experience with it Because I don't think that's true necessarily, and I was going to say that towards the end of our conversation is like you also don't need to wait until you're, because actually I think I certainly wasn't. I mean, I don't even know, I wasn't tracking certainly how many people are in any of our inquiries. I was, was just full and I didn't really have a vision for, like what my group practice was going to be like. Obviously now I have much more of a clear stance on that same thing with, like, insurance. I didn't know what I was doing when I started growing my team. Now I feel like a little bit more confident in it. But yeah, I didn't have.
Speaker 2:I I'd had like way less child care when I started hiring and that was why I had to hire, because I was like, well, I've built this business that I don't want to like go away, but I can't see more people. I just like don't have the time for it. So the only way to sustain it was to start hiring and actually my husband and I were just talking about this this weekend. It almost kind of was nice because I, because we, made the decision for me to stay home and I was already seeing like less than 10 people a week that my income, like once I started hiring I was able to like give my employees all the inquiries, so my income sort of was able to stay at this baseline where I wasn't stressed about making more money, versus somebody who might have a full-time caseload and then start hiring.
Speaker 2:At a certain point you have to stop seeing as many clients yourself to grow your team and that can be really hard to take that pay cut when you're used to having a fuller caseload as a clinician.
Speaker 2:So it actually might be a good time for you now when you have a lower caseload, to be like okay, I can sustain this income for right now and grow, and then from there is where your income can grow is from having a clinician on your team. Does that make sense? What I'm saying about that it's actually like a unique opportunity, I think, as a parent, because once again it's kind of like a side hustle for us when we're more of a primary parent or home with our kids or our kids are not in full-time childcare. So if we kind of have that baseline of a lower caseload, it actually kind of makes it easier, I think, to make the leap versus somebody who has a fuller caseload, who has a full income that they depend on from seeing their own clients, so they don't have to cut that back in order to grow their team. So for that sense, from a financial perspective, I actually think there's a plus to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it made total sense and I think too, even that, yeah, just like you said, it is going to take more time initially to get that started right, like that group practice started and get somebody hired and all of those structures set up. So it's both like a time commitment and then also that potential like financial commitment to or financial cost. So that does make sense to me right, whenever, like my caseload is lower, I'm already kind of comfortable where I'm at financially to start thinking about making a shift like that.
Speaker 2:I think because we do have so many things sort of going on as moms and business owners, for me, once I started hiring, it sort of helped me have the focus of like, okay, now, what do I need to do to build this person's caseload, and it sort of helped give me direction of where to focus my efforts. And it is a really you know, that is sort of my perspective of my experience has been. Is that like because I don't have like 40 hours a week to devote to my business, sometimes when my son is sleeping is when I'm writing emails, right. Sometimes, when I don't know it's the weekend and my in-laws are here, I can like go upstairs and do some work, like that's just the season of life we're in, right, and so it actually does, I think, becomes actually a nice option for a mom and I think it's really important.
Speaker 2:And it sounds like group practice, something you want to do either way, and I don't think it should be like, oh, this is a good job for a mom, like I think you need to want to have a group practice, which it sounds like for you. That's like you're looking for some kind of shift away from the one-on-one, wanting to do more of those like CEO kind of tasks. So having that already is good, but it does allow for that flexibility because sometimes, yeah, like our kids are sick, we can't, like we have to cancel our appointments. But if I'm like, and that's income, and but for me, if my son is sick and maybe my appointments for the day is with my team, that I can reschedule for the next day, like it's not a big deal, I'm not losing income because they're still seeing their clients Right, and so it helps make, I think, this job a little bit more flexible too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I really appreciate your perspective on that and I think again, just especially because it feels different than the perspective I've I've heard from a lot of others and so, yeah, just again, I don't necessarily know that that is what I feel ready for right now, but it definitely makes it feel easier to consider, like, okay, what is it that I really want right now, what does make sense to me, rather than just feeling afraid of pursuing that even though I really want to, just because you know, others have said, oh, I wouldn't do that. So, yeah, I think your take on it makes a lot of sense to me and gives me a lot to think about. Well, good.
Speaker 2:I'm glad it's like a perspective that feels like helpful and doable, because it certainly, I think, is wherever you are. As long as it's, I think it's a thing right. It's like do I want to do this thing? Okay, and then what are the steps? I need to go and trying to not, you know, do the thing that a lot of us do, where we have to feel like it's perfectly set up in order for us to get started.
Speaker 2:So I think, just like with the insurance thing, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of free resources and Facebook groups. There's a lot of also like free opportunities to get freaked out. So you know all that with a grain of salt, free opportunities to get freaked out. So you know, I'll call that with a grain of salt, but it can be a helpful place just to like find out information, get referrals for things, like a biller, you know, get connected with people. I mean people all the time will post like does anyone have like a template of this? And like I'll post stuff on there, or like somebody else will. So like, there's a lot of free like resources that people are willing to share too, even through, like with the hiring process stuff too, so it doesn't all have to be like how am I gonna do this? Like there's a lot of information out there and it's very doable with less than 15 hours a week.
Speaker 1:Yes. Well thank you. Thank you for the pep talk that I needed for letting me process all the different ideas in my head. It's definitely been really helpful.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad. Any final thoughts before we wrap up for today.
Speaker 1:No, I guess really just what I said, that I'm just feeling like encouraged and it again feels helpful to kind of have some clarity of like steps that I can take and explore and, yeah, in a way that you know still honors the structure and the needs of my life as a whole. So, thank, you, eva.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so glad it's been helpful and it's been really great to chat with a fellow mom who, you know, knows the struggle of trying to, you know, do the things we want to do for ourselves and for our families. So, yeah, it's been really lovely to chat. I'll be sure to share your information in the show notes. So, if anyone wants to check out Shelby's website and social media, since it's still available, I'll make sure to link that and I'll send over some of the things I mentioned and listeners. Hopefully one day it'll be available on my website for download. And, yeah, thank you so much for being open and talking through all this as well. It was really great to chat. Thank you, eva. Thanks, all right, everyone. Thanks for listening. We will see you next time. Bye. Thanks for listening to the RD to CEO podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources mentioned or find more at wwwrdtoceocom. Never miss an episode by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
