The RDtoCEO Podcast
Dive into The RDtoCEO Podcast, hosted by Registered Dietitian and CEO, Eva Haldis, where she shares her journey in entrepreneurship, with discussions on the basics on building a private practice and becoming a confident CEO. The RDtoCEO Podcast is your go-to resource for mastering the art of transitioning from a dietitian to a successful CEO.
The RDtoCEO Podcast
Taking Chances & Building Resilience ft. Amy Plano RD, MS, CDE, CDN
Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Amy Plano, who you may already know as The Reimbursement Dietitian, as she takes us through her incredible journey from clinical dietetics to becoming a successful entrepreneur. Amy shares her early experiences of juggling part-time work at Yale with patient counseling during her internship, and how she navigated diverse roles in clinical settings, academia, and various side hustles. She provides an in-depth look into her transition to entrepreneurship, underscoring the significance of setting expectations and building resilience. Amy's story is a testament to the diverse paths one can take within the dietetics profession and how important it is to take chances, make mistakes and building resiliency!
Amy Plano, The Reimbursement Dietitian, RD, MS, CDE, CDN, is a successful private practice dietitian passionate about helping dietitians create a profitable nutrition private practice using an insured-based model. Together with her husband, Marc Plano, she runs the profitable, The Plano Program, a health and wellness-based center in Orange, CT. Through both her coaching programs, online resources and seminars, she teaches dietitians exactly how to use health insurance to make money in their nutrition practices.
For more on where to find Amy:
www.reimbursementdietitian.com
www.thepcosdietitian.com
www.amyplano.com
Instagram: @reimbursement_dietitian & @hiringdietitian
Facebook: Amy Plano, The Reimbursement Dietitian
Want a question answered on the podcast? Send me a message, or a text message, and maybe it'll be featured in an episode!
You can send me a message on IG -
https://www.instagram.com/evahaldis_rd or https://www.instagram.com/rdtoceo
Find more about RDtoCEO at https://www.rdtoceo.com
For episode updates and coaching packages, check out our website - www.rdtoceo.com
Affiliate Links Often Mentioned:
Gusto for Payroll - https://gusto.com/h/eva6486
Practice Better- https://practicebetter.partnerlinks.io/evahaldis9298
*Please note that while we strive to provide valuable insights, our podcast is not a replacement for personalized legal or financial counsel. We strongly advise consulting with qualified professionals for specific advice tailored to your individual circumstances.*
Welcome to the RD to CEO podcast. I'm your host, eva Haldis, registered dietitian, who one day found herself a whole CEO of a business. Join me as we navigate the world of entrepreneurship so you can go from being an RD who sees clients in private practice to a confident CEO growing the practice of your dreams.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the RD to CEO podcast.
Speaker 1:Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode. I am happy to be back recording. I skipped a week last week with the podcast and did not upload. An episode last week, which I've talked about here before is something that I was trying to avoid, because I think there's a little part of me that worries my ADHD will sort of be like well, maybe we don't need to do it anymore and just forget about this project altogether. But of course that's not happening and nothing is going to be perfect and nothing needs to be all or nothing, and so there's just been a lot going on behind the scenes and I'll share more about that in a couple weeks. I'm sure I'll give a little update on all the things that's been going on in my life. But with the practice I think the summer was things had slowed down and now things are picking back up, which is, of course, exciting, and so we've been busy at the practice and my son started school and just some other stuff been happening. So I wanted to get the episode out last week and it just didn't happen, and that's okay. We're here to embrace imperfection, but I'm really excited about our episode today because we have a special guest today, amy Plano, who a lot of you may know as the reimbursement dietitian, and I originally invited Amy on to talk a lot about her work with dietitians and insurance and the episode really ended up being a lot about Amy's story, which I didn't know before. So it was really interesting to hear more about her journey in entrepreneurship and we talk a lot about really the setting of expectations for yourself and building resiliency in entrepreneurship and it was a really great conversation. I was really grateful to have Amy on.
Speaker 1:If you don't know Amy, here's a little bit about her. Amy Plano is a successful private practice dietitian passionate about helping dietitians create a profitable nutrition private practice using an insurance-based model. Together with her husband, mark Plano, she runs the profitable the Plano Program, a health and wellness-based center in Orange, connecticut. Through both her coaching programs, online resources and seminars, she teaches dietitians exactly how to use health insurance to make money in their nutrition practices. Amy is a expert on all things insurance and we talk a little bit about one of her things that she sells, which is a cheat sheet, and I know lots of dietitians have it.
Speaker 1:I have it myself and, yeah, we talk a lot about that and, like I said, her journey. So it's a great episode and I hope you enjoy listening more about our kind of conversation. As always, be sure to like subscribe wherever you're getting your podcasts so you can stay up to date on new episodes, and I think that's all I have to say. So, without further ado, let's get into the episode today. Hi everyone, I'm so excited to welcome our guest today, amy Plano, who you probably all know as the reimbursement dietitian and now the hiring dietitian, and we are so excited to have you.
Speaker 1:I am so excited to be here. Yay, hear a little bit more about your story. A lot of the purpose of this podcast is really talking to dietitians and talking, obviously, about my experiences, but also hearing from others who are in private practice and sort of where we go from that dietitian who just wants to see clinicians and do the work to all of a sudden having this business where you have to make all these decisions and you're like what am I doing? And I think a lot of us go through this sort of transition where all of a sudden we shift in how we think about things from a business standpoint. So before we kind of talk a little bit about some of those things, I'd love to hear more about just your journey in being an entrepreneur and how you've kind of gotten to where you are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was hired.
Speaker 2:So I did my internship at Yale and I was hired on my graduation day, which was great. But I only wanted to work part-time. So I went into a part-time role outpatient which I was super fortunate, because I know everybody says that they don't want to work like clinical. I knew that I definitely wanted to, so I kind of like scored there and I was very even during my internship. I was very vocal with the people that I worked with and worked among that.
Speaker 2:Someday down the road I wanted to have a private practice and I started counseling patients during my internship, more for sports nutrition, not knowing what I was doing. It was messy, it was sloppy, it was like in the atrium of the hospital, but I knew, based on what we all go through, that anything was figureoutable and so it was really messy in the beginning. But I started my private practice during my internship really just with athletes. My background was in sports performance, so I came from a research background was in sports performance, so I came from a research background, working up at UConn in a sports performance lab before I went clinical. So I was somewhat trained to work with athletes and so, yeah, so I had a kind of like a traditional I always say like a traditional beginning of an entrepreneurship, because I worked at the clinic three times a week. I also had another full-time job where I was teaching in academia at a local university and then I also was like picking up any other side hustles, so it might be like doing a presentation for a health fair.
Speaker 2:So I would say for the first seven to 10 years of my career it was more about finding like what I didn't want to do. You know, I, when I graduated and I became a dietitian, I went right into eating disorders because that's one of the things that I specialize in my research background and I quickly realized that sometimes you push and sometimes you pivot. And I pivoted very quickly and I had like four years of training behind me but I really just didn't enjoy it. So I think in the beginning as entrepreneurs you know, we're always thinking like what do we want to do? But I think more of the question is like what don't we want to do? Because I think in the beginning you don't know is like what don't we want to do Because I think in the beginning you don't know and I really think you have to make a lot of mistakes, go a lot of different directions, ultimately where you find where you fall. But you know, I did everything, like my mother-in-law like laughs at me, because, like I literally like any job, like I would try anything, which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 2:Because I see a lot of newer dietitians like very gun shy, like I was like just everywhere. I was like doing presentations, I was like in gyms, like I said yes to everything, and that's why I see a different mentality with new dietitians. Like I feel like they are gun shy, given what we were told and therefore they expect different things. I expected nothing of anybody in the beginning of my career. I knew I was going to have to blaze the trail and go all in and I said yes, 100% of the time. So, yeah, so lots of different things in the beginning, but I didn't go full-time into private practice until 2017. Yeah, so I think I different things in the beginning, but I didn't go full time into private practice until 2017.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think I started where everybody else started, but my mentality was very different. That, like I knew. I know people say things differently. I am not one of these mentors who says you don't need to do clinical. I really feel like my time at Yale, my time in academia, allowed me to be who I am today. I don't think I would be as successful as I am today had I not started there. I feel like those were. Yes, we didn't make a ton of money doing that, but those are massive opportunities for growth and learning and I tend to be an individual that where I think there's a big difference between learning seasons and earning seasons, and for me that was really like a pivotal piece is like doing all of the things, trying all of the things and learning, you know, but I didn't mind. I didn't mind working for somebody else either.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, that's such a lot of. I wrote down a lot of little you said too, because I'm like anything is regrettable, you know, learning season, earning season. I love that and I can really relate to that because I think you're right. I think a lot of what I also see is either the the gun, you know the gun shyness of like, not maybe wanting to take risks, or there's this feeling of like I should be making all this money all of a sudden and I'm like I have a practice with the lock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that piece I cannot. I don't know where that originates from. Like, I didn't start making like money, like, like, like a decade into the whole side. But I also didn't expect anything different.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean Like my expectations were very different than the new generation coming in, that, um, I and I'm not saying that like I walked to school with holes in my shoes, like three miles, like I'm not one of those people and like that's actually why I do what I do is that I don't want people to have to do what I did for those years. But I think more of our success in private practice and entrepreneurship is about our mindset than it is about anything else. And I think where I see a lot of dietitians go astray, especially in the beginning, is they have mismatched expectations of reality versus, you know, actual yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so it's like that's why and I always that's why, like, I always try to be a straight shooter and sometimes it can be harsh, but I just want people to understand what reality is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, I totally agree with you. Maybe it's because on social media things seem like you know they're so and I totally, I totally agree with you. And maybe it's because on social media things seem like they're so and I've done episodes on this and talked about I think a lot of times there's maybe business coaches out there that are sort of selling the financial so that it feels like that's oh, that's what I want to do. Is I want to have this passive income or making tons of money, but all of it, especially, I think, in private practice, and I always say like it can't just be about the money.
Speaker 1:Obviously, we all need money to survive and we deserve to make a livable, you know, a good wage and yeah, I think it just all one takes time. Like a private practice is a lot about the momentum and people knowing you and building that community and making mistakes is going to be the way that we learn what not to do. And I I actually really agree with you too around like I always kind of struggled with like I don't know what I want to do, but I it was much easier for me to know what I didn't want to do and I was just trying different things until I found the thing I really liked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I just think in the beginning. I just had a conversation on a call with a dietitian who is cash-based, who's interested in going into an insurance-based practice, and it was like a 60-minute conversation and it was all about. This is what it's going to look like and it's going to be ugly in the beginning. You know what I mean. You have eight months right now where you're going to want to kill me. You're not going to like me, like. You know what I mean, but I think the more real you are with individuals not in just like that's my identity is being bold and crazy, but I think dieticians have a right to know what they can expect and I think like that's where you and I come in as mentors is sharing our experience the good, the bad and the ugly. I say a lot in my newsletters. It's not like all rainbows and unicorns and pink glitter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there are certainly right. There's elements of being in private practice and for us as group practice owners too, that is not very fun and stressful in its own way, but there's probably parts of it. You know, I certainly have parts of it that I'm like, no, but this is actually really what I enjoy doing. It's what I'm like about and the stressful parts make it worth it. But it's yeah, there's no perfect. You know kind of formula to like having like a successful profitable. You know you know kind of formula to like having like a successful profitable. You know you know accessible practice.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, there's no hacks, there's no shortcuts, Like like it's like, it is what it is, and I think that it doesn't get easier. You just get stronger, right Like you figure out how to navigate these things and your response is what changes, how you react. You know to these circumstances, which the time to decision gets shorter as well, because you are able to build and make decisions based on experience. I think a lot of dietitians have analysis paralysis in regards to business, starting private practices or doing something that's unconventional, and I think they psych themselves out. I always say to people like that your inability to make a decision is going to make or break your career in every aspect. Right, Like you have to decide either way. You and I are saying like this is hard, but you still have to do it. And then, on the flip side, we're saying like this is the voice in your head telling you this, but you know. So I think you have to be able to, you know, develop a tough skin. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know in order to persevere.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it's yeah right, it is hard and stressful and it's also really rewarding. But I think it's like what you said in the beginning when you were doing counseling in the atrium of the hospitals, like anything is figureoutable and we can pivot and change how we do things. And just like you were saying with your career, I'm like pivoting like this is actually not what I want to do, and I see that a lot too with, like you know, when there it's like hiring, like I just did an episode on W2 versus 1099. Like a lot of people tend to go the 1099 route because it seems easier, but you can always change W2 if that's in alignment with what you're doing and whatnot. Of course we want you know. I think the big fear a lot of dietitians have in that type A perfectionist is like you're going to get in trouble if you do it wrong.
Speaker 1:Or like you're going to, like, do something really illegal.
Speaker 2:Like the things that keep dietitians up at night.
Speaker 2:It's like really fascinating to me those sorts of things, because I think, at the end of the day, my mentality from out of the gates was always like every day I'm going to give my best, and some days my best is going to look different.
Speaker 2:But when I go to bed at night I am the only one who has to be okay with my decisions. And I think, like I realized that, like trying to be somebody that I wasn't, or trying to go a direction that like felt like uncomfortable, like it just was too exhausting, and so, like I often will say to dietitians, like oh man, like my head hurts, like listening to the things inside your head that don't really matter right, like and I'm not saying that like that's easier said than done. But you know, most dieticians feel like a sense of anxiety, but it's not really anxiety proper, like a mental health disorder, it's just they lack the confidence which is normal. So when dieticians say I have I, you know they're just uncertain and one would assume that's fine, because they don't know what they're doing and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think this is like a good segue and we were talking a little bit before we started recording about just, I think, having there are so many resources out there. Yeah, and as you and I, you know, are people who provide support to dietitians, we know that there's I think you know there's always a different personality that might work for one person versus another or what the structure that they're looking for. But something I feel like I'm curious and I want to talk about, kind of how you got involved with insurance and all those things. But what is it about? Do you think the information that's out there? Because sometimes I'm like if I don't know something, I mean the first thing I do is I'll go into the Facebook groups I'm in, search it and see if somebody asked this question before I'll Google you know Pennsylvania state law there and just see what I can find. What do you think holds dietitians, I guess, in particular, back from finding that information? Or I wonder what it is about, personalities maybe like ours who will look.
Speaker 2:I love that question. That's a good question, I think, and I know nobody wants to hear this, but I think I don't know. I don't know why we are this way, but I think a lot of dietitians lack the ability. So I was saying push and pivot and I think some dietitians pivot quicker than they are willing to push. Okay, and I know like and this is just speaking from my experience of working with thousands of dietitians at this point, and I'm not saying that dietitians are fragile but I am like a lot of times somebody will ask something and I will literally go to Google Like, uh, I did it for Highmark, for Blue Cross, blue Shield, the other day, other day, you know, provider grievance form, highmark, and literally it popped up, but I don't know if it's diet.
Speaker 2:I don't know if dietitians think that things are so complicated and I think that that could be like why they feel paralyzed. But the majority, the way you build a successful business, is on simple, consistent tasks. Nothing is complicated, it's your ability to continue to do it on a long enough time horizon where you don't stop because it's boring. You don't stop because it's hard. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I do think there's I mean there's probably just a level of fear. It's like the more information we have, the more overwhelming maybe it feels. And I I mean I was even talking to one of the clinicians on my team about our role as the clinician isn't necessarily, like you know, for us with eating disorders in particular, we do a lot more of a therapeutic approach and sometimes it's not about really just like you were saying, like it's not that they don't need more information. I'm like we're a person that can help sort of mirror something to somebody or point out something that they may not be seeing, because, yeah, maybe they're feeling so nervous, anxious, whatever it might be, that they can't get out of their own way to just say like, okay, here's, here's the thing that's happening. We need to work, start here, go there, you know, and sort of build, build the pieces from there.
Speaker 1:But I do see a lot of yeah, it's the nervousness, but I think that's maybe a lot of people see the like shiny, pretty side of private practice. But I think that's what sometimes happens with entrepreneurship, is it's? I mean, when I hired auditions, like I always say, like there's people that want to have their own business and there's people that want to work in private practice, like because you have to be a risk taker. You have to be. I think one of the things that benefits me is that I'm a little bit impulsive, and so that's what helps me take those risks. But a lot of times, yeah it's it's just sort of the fear that gets in a lot of people's way, I think, from just like wanting to not say the you know, ask it, ask a question the wrong way or find this information.
Speaker 2:How do I know this is actually correct and not, you know, just feeling like you just have to sort of sometimes do it and do it wrong, and that's why I try to reinforce when I see somebody go into one of these, you know, and these public Facebook pages are scary, they're big. I love nothing more than somebody says. I just dove deep into the questions and I looked really hard and I couldn't find it. That's what I am like. I am like you know. I'm like do you want to jump on a call? Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I have so much like that to me is like you know you put in the work, and I think that, like that to me, is really important that people do that and when people do that, I think it's like one of the things I learned as and I'm sure you learned this as well is that there's different types of bosses in employment, right, and so one of the things that I decided from the very beginning was that I would never take a punitive approach when managing my employees.
Speaker 2:I would always try to deflect and say, okay, if somebody was doing something wrong, rather than highlight that, I give them suggestions for what to do differently. You know what I mean, and so, by that way, and then, once you ask them to do something differently, you continue to reinforce that good pattern, and so that's what I try to do as a mentor to thousands of dietitians in these public Facebook pages is, like you know, reinforce like the good behavior, because I think that does translate over into people's businesses, because I you know what I mean I think it's really important and so that's why I think, like finding the right mentor or the right coach, because for some people that my approach is not is going to be too harsh where I know personally I don't really take much personally Like I want you to give me direction, I want you to tell me how to be better.
Speaker 1:Totally. I mean, that's how we learn and you know I'm sure I've said this before on the podcast and I say to my clinicians is there is like you're going to say the wrong thing. Sometimes I say things to clients I'm like that did not land and I'm like that did not land and I just like put that in my head. It's like I'm not going to say that anymore. But it's not about like I suck as a clinician now. It's like okay, maybe I just need more. You know, maybe I need to look into more of like. How can I phrase this thing I'm trying to say in a more effective way versus like yeah, like I suck, I should just, and then I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:You know, that's really why like entrepreneurship is not for everybody, because some people do really like the consistency of like. Sometimes I think that I'm like I wish I had the consistency sometimes of like a job that I go to and then I can come home and like not think about it and just be with myself. But I also know that, like 95% of the time, if that was my life, all the time I would. But I also know that, like 95% of the time, if that was my life all the time I would. Oh yeah, that's just not for me. It's like I would be bored and I would hate that and yeah, that's, that's OK. It's that's why there's like so many opportunities out there, whether it's your own business or somebody else's.
Speaker 2:And I think there's this like, so two things like we call those moments that you just described, when like things come out of your mouth that you shouldn't have said or didn't meet. We call those in my practice like throw up in your mouth moments, and like when you're like like you know what I mean. I cannot believe I did that, but the cool thing about those is you generally tend to not repeat those. I think that is the beauty in making mistakes. It's not that you cannot make mistakes. The intention is not to continue to make the same mistakes. The other thing that I think is really important for people to understand is that I think we have done I don't know how. I'm sure I have been part of this problem, but we have put private practice on for some reason on this pedestal, and it could be the way that we, as business coaches, present the life in which we live because of as a result and I love my I love both sides of my business, I love growing my team and I love working with dietitians but I almost feel like it's like the Wizard of Oz when you get to the end and you pull back the curtain of private practice and you're like is this, is this, it this? What I was like is this, like the bill of goods that I've been sold and and I don't say that in a bad way, but I feel like I always love when I talk to dietitians then like not love, but they'll say something to me like you know, I'm only side hustling, you know now, you know, and I'm doing my full-time job and I'm, like you know, I'm only side hustling, you know now, you know, and I'm doing my full-time job and I'm like that is incredible. Like you do not need to be a full-time, like you, like you know what I mean. Like you guys did define success any way you want. And we need to continue, as mentors, to rewrite this narrative that it's okay to be multi-passionate. Like we need dieticians in dialysis centers, we need dietitians clinical. Like we need them in academia. Who says you need to choose? Who says I am better than anybody else who works clinical, you know, and who says I'm any better than a cash-based dietitian because I accept insurance? So I think I don't know how we have gotten here, and I think a lot of it's social media that we have built up this hype and it makes everybody feel really crappy if they are not working in private practice.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I often say to my husband, if I didn't do what I did, I would rather work at Target. Like I'd go where I have no pride, like this is not about pride, this is not about my ego. You know, this is about like a direction I went and it just seemed to work, but like I don't want anybody listening to this podcast feel like that that is the be all, end all of life. I am not at the spa today, like, and you will never see me at the spa on a Thursday afternoon, because I have a job to do, and, yes, we you and I have freedom, we have flexibility. Because I have a job to do, and, yes, you and I have freedom, we have flexibility, we have all of those things, but our lives are just different. Like you know what I mean. They're not better.
Speaker 1:The you know, when I had, when I worked in the university before and I would come home, I really wouldn't be thinking about work that much when I like left usually, Whereas now I do, but I feel more fulfilled during the day because that's just what works for me. And I think you're right. There is something that there's like this allure I mean I say it all the time Like when I, before I, started my private practice, it was something I said to myself like oh yeah, when I, when I want to have a family, I'll, I'll want a private practice so I can have a flexible, you know, a flexible job, and I always say it is to a point, because there are times and it's nice. I don't think that, like you, should aspire to like be working at night when your kid's finally in bed. You know, I'm in a season of life where I have a small child.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, though, that's like the reality for me is that I like that I can do, you know, sometimes where I have to like he's home and he's sick, it sucks because I'm like I wish I could just do what the thing is I need to do, but I can do my work later on, but that's a sacrifice I make to the flexibility I have with my schedule. And so, yeah, there's like gives and takes with with all of it, but it's not. It's not as like, yeah, rainbows and sunshines as you were saying.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's just, and I feel like sometimes I like I get really frustrated with myself as a mentor. That and sometimes when, like the SHIT is hitting the fan, like it's hard to be recording those moments. You know what I mean. Because, like, your attention is elsewhere, like a lot of the dietitians in my programs, like, like they know the good, the bad, the ugly of my life and of these seasons, and not because I don't share it with anybody else, but it's like sometimes it's just like you're doing stuff when, but those and including mine, like my Instagram, is like my highlight reel for the most part, like this is like all the goods and the wins, but, like you know, it's like, but I think that just the reality. You know, I think it's hard.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, because when you sell a premium product, you know people expect a premium delivery of that, and sometimes, as dietitians, we associate that concept of being perfect and nobody's perfect. You know, like I said, it's like if anything but that. So I think that that part makes me really sad. When somebody says to me like, oh, I'm just like they, almost like whisper, and I'm like it's totally cool, like there's lots of days when I don't want to be here, like when I'm like going out to dinner and I'm getting a call from my office manager that we think this particular dietitian is stealing from us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I'm good, like you know what I mean. Or I'm in Paris and I'm six hours ahead and I'm like dealing with a turn, like I'm good. I think it's those sides that not enough dietitians see and they see all the good and they're just like, oh, I can't wait and yes, I am. I am like so pro, I'm so pro what you and I do. But I am also like this glasses. Like I am like a realist and I just want people to understand that and I don't want them to feel bad.
Speaker 2:Like you know, there's so many amazing like I, just where I did my internship, like, oh gosh, it's crazy, cause I do a private practice class every single year for their interns and like all of the same dietitians are there at Yale and they're like outstanding clinicians that could do circles around me, Like they are so freaking good. But like I think what you had alluded to previously is, like not everybody like wants to go this direction. You know, and I have dietitians who have worked for me for 10 years Like they're like super psyched, Like they're not, they just don't want to do what you and I do on the backend and that is cool, Totally cool. Yeah, People say that I'm crazy all the time. Like I, like I don't, like even I don't just hire people that I know like are going to be with me long-term.
Speaker 2:Like my goal as a mentor, as a boss, as a CEO, is to make our field better and that means if somebody comes to my practice I know this is controversial and I know in the back, like I know that they have expressed to me the same way I expressed to Yale, that someday I want to have a private practice. That is not threatening to me, because I know I can mentor them into a good clinician, so when it's time for them to go. But I'm sure you've seen like there's. There's like dietitians feel very threatened by that. I'm like super psyched because I'm like cool, Like let's like, let me role model good behavior. So when it's time for you to fly, you're going to kill it and I'm going to support you.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean, I can see the fear and, like I was saying earlier, I try to hire people who maybe don't want to own their own. But I always say to people, even during the interview process I say to my clinicians all the time, if that's where you end up, I will roll the carpet out and help you do it and I will help you through that process. Like I'm not, I'm not here to like own you as a clinician. That's all good, you know. Um, that's like my job as a business owner to like be prepared for that versus like I would say I I try to give people a reason to stay, not be afraid that they're gonna leave, and that's that's how I try to.
Speaker 1:You know, lead my team, but that's not definite. You know, just like with anything else in our work that we do here, with private practice and group practice. But you know, on the note of just like all this stuff, and I think one of the biggest things that dietitians are afraid of or have expectations around is insurance and making insurance is insurance and insurance. How did you, yeah, where did that shift come for you of like having your own private practice and now also having this other piece of your business. That's the reimbursement. Dietitian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like really interesting stories, so like I. So, like I said, I started working outpatient and we used to drop charges and so like it was different, because it was like pre-EPIC. I left like right when EPIC and these big EMRs were coming in, but like we used to fill out a little sheet and we used to put the ICD-10 code in and so you know. So like I was saying, like I had been practicing my counseling skills, so that was not something that you know, that wasn't the piece that I needed support with. But as I worked outpatient I learned more about how reimbursement worked. And you can imagine there's a lot of dietitians who work clinical and outpatient situations like like I do today, and they are like less than you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I think the I think my education was no different than it is today. I just had this mentality that I my husband will disagree, but like I like to think that I'm a socialist and that like he's like, well, would you give somebody your car and I. But like I like to think that I'm a socialist and that like he's like, well, would you give somebody your car? And I'm like probably not. But like you know what I mean Like I really like, I like everybody to win, like, and I played. I played division one, soccer and lacrosse in college. I am like a team player, like through and through I do very poorly. I'm an ice hockey goalie, like, I'm just used to defending and playing with other people, and so for me, insurance was a no brainer. You know, even though I knew it was going to be hard, I was coming out of my internship and that was hard enough and so, like you know and the Yale internship is one of the more rigorous ones it was like I learned that I could do hard things and I knew that it was going to be hard to figure this out. But I was also like I was also working with eating disorders where at the time the cost of treatment was like cost prohibitive for so many patients, prohibitive for so many patients and if they went into a treatment center, like they were going to bankrupt their family. And it was like the back. It was like that socialist in me is like okay, like I know this is going to be hard, but like there's a light at the end of the tunnel and I only need to learn how to do it once. It was more of like a mind shift with you know, I'm working with eating disorder patients Like how can I decrease the cost to barrier, like the barrier to entry to work with me?
Speaker 2:And I think that coming from that place was extremely important and it shaped like the next two decades of my life because had I come at it from a financial perspective, like you know, it would be very different. And that's why I find it's very hard for some cash-based dieticians to be successful in insurance-based practices because their heart and their mind are in two different spots. And to me, accepting insurance is everybody is winning and, depending upon your state, like there is going to be variability. Like for the same service in Connecticut we get $75 for one service. The same exact service we get paid by another insurance company $169. Same exact service, same exact timeframe. And I always say you take the good with the awesome, because even at $75 an hour, that's close to $150,000 a year. If you're, you know what I mean. And so, yeah, I just think I just knew that we were capable of hard things, even back then.
Speaker 2:My little brother passed away during my internship. He was a heroin addict and like he died in October and my internship started in September and back in the day. So my internship application was all on paper in only 50% of dietitians place back then. So for every like for every 100 spots, you know. So it's like it was uber competitive and like I had spent, like my you know, like all of that time building up to that point and so kind of learned, like you know, going through all of that, that like you know you have two choices in life, right, like you can either like dig in and keep on going or you can give up.
Speaker 2:And so I think for me, like knowing I could get through hard things and work through hard things, like it changed the trajectory of my life because I was just like I got this. That's kind of like the you know my mindset was like how can we all win? It's the same thing with on my team now, like how can, how can my whole team win? And so I want everybody to win. And so for me it was just a no brainer for insurance. But it was by no means easy. It was super messy, it was way different than it is now, but I just knew I could figure it out and I knew I would make a lot of mistakes, but my expectations were different, like I didn't expect anything. I expected it to go the exact way that it did. Yeah, but I just had a bigger like, I had a bigger vision relative to you.
Speaker 1:But, um, but yeah, like I just went for it and I never, ever looked back so much of your story is around and I think of this conversation, kind of where I evolved into is around like building resiliency and, you know, taking these things and taking risks and learning from them and, yeah, you know, having this really challenging experiences in your life have obviously like led you down this path to then being like. This is information that dietitians clearly would need, and so they need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like, yeah, and so then it wouldn't have been there. And so like, and so like. I used to work like 80 hours a week for a very long period of my time. I say 60, my husband would say 80, but like, so, like, I worked a normal job. Right, I had several normal jobs.
Speaker 2:Some days I would go to my office before work, which is that, like, I'd go see patients at six 630. I'd go to my regular job. Then I would, you know, go to my teaching job Saturday and Sundays I would see patients. I would see like 43 patients a week, like, and so I think that that's also the piece that people don't see now, you know. And then, like, in the middle of that, I was training like for a figure show. So I'd be up at 4am, I'd be at the gym by 430.
Speaker 2:I train with a train. I mean I do cardio. Then I train with a trainer from five to six, take a shower, go to Yale, work at Yale until four, go teach from six to nine, come home with my Tupperware and my bag that was bigger than me and start it all over again and like and rinse and repeat. I think that that's the piece that you know I just had that conversation with this particular dietitian is like there are seasons when you need to push, and that was a season I knew I needed to push right. There was no pivoting there, there was no shiny objects, like there were no hacks, and so that's what I just did for a really long period of my time and I think that that's I think it's really important for me.
Speaker 2:I know, when I choose mentors and coaches, that people have had the same lived experiences that you will go through. I scratch my head a lot in the space when I look at coaches who have never done what they are trying to teach or support. And I need to see patients like I need a hole in my head given the fact that I've seen so many for so long. But I also know, in order to be relative and relative you know, it's like I need to be seeing patients, like I need to be billing for these services, and so I'm in the game just like everybody else, and so I always find it fascinating that people think in these in this space, because I am where I am and they are where I am, that like we don't have the same problems. We all have the same problems. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I go through the same thing. Group practice owners go through solo practice owners. You know we have no call, no shows, like we do all of the. You know what I mean. So it's just like, it's just a matter with how we react and what our mentality is. I I never, I've never in all of this, played the role of the victim. So it allows me then to react to this and say, okay, cool, like, like, it's not about us, like, how do we respond to this? How do we move forward with this? It's not.
Speaker 2:Woe is me, because there's definitely been moments when I want to throw myself on the ground, but I also know that that's not going to move my business forward, and yeah, so it's like I think that, that I think, if I think, if I could give any one words of advice, and I think, if there's anything that I see when I'm looking at dietitians. So one of my core so I have three core values in my practice. One is be and this is how it's written out be a good, effing person, and I define what that looks like. The other one is to choose kindness and the other one is to support a environment of candor, meaning that it's okay to challenge people as long as you show that you care. Choosing kindness is the most important thing anybody can do, because you never know what somebody is going through. So every single week I make my employees, they do a scorecard and they need to evaluate those three areas and give me examples of how they demonstrated the core values of our, of our practice.
Speaker 2:Not on a superficial level, because for me, like that's what gets the world going. That's why, when people are like taking people to collections over, like an $80, no call, no show, like it's just like for me, like that's not my core value, that's not ingrained on my heart. So it's like you know, it's like I cannot. I can't even fathom those conversations because once you define your core values and who you are and how you operate, like like none of that, none of that is relevant. Yeah, like if I have a team, if I have a team of dietitians and I'm stressing out about $80, I probably have bigger financial bills to fund. Yeah, so I think it's a lot of like that, that mentality, like I think it all, like it all comes back to like how people see the world.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I see it very differently.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, no, I think you're right too. It very differently. Well, I mean, no, I think you're right too. Um, it's sort of like picking our battles of, like what's actually worth it. I think that's the thing about accepting insurance.
Speaker 1:Other than it, I think people sometimes think it's like, uh, I'm gonna take insurance and then people are gonna be knocking down come see me, yes, and that, like I, you know it's, and I'll be honest, maybe four years ago whenever it is, I think it was yeah, four years ago when I started, I maybe was like, oh, it'll increase that, but it does. You know, ultimately, that's not why I did it. I did it because I wanted to be accessible and I wanted to provide, you know, inclusive, accessible care. And an added benefit was that, yeah, it would make it easier for me to sell my services. And people are like, oh, yeah, yeah, my insurance card is wonderful, but, um, but yeah, like there's part of that then becomes people. Things happen where people, yeah, they ghost you and they don't pay, and somebody fight me over fifty dollars once I just refunded it.
Speaker 1:I'm like it's not exactly and I know, that's like where I'm at in my business. I can make those calls, but um, you know, yeah it's. It's coming back to our values of like why we're, why we do what we do and making decisions around that. You know that's a difference between like somebody who's like maybe multiple sessions, who agreed to pay a cash pay cost. But you know, when it comes to these insurance things and be accessible, I think that's.
Speaker 2:And I think for me, as I was transitioning, so like when I was going from, you know, the 40 to 46 patients a week and I, you know the way that reimbursement dietitian was born, was like my husband, so my husband is a personal trainer and my office is in the studio and so, you know, we were generally at work at the same time and so, like before the pandemic, like everybody was seen in person and so I'd see like 12 patients on a Saturday morning and he would be like why are more dieticians doing this? Like you're making like a thousand dollars, like in you know, like like that's unheard of, and I said like it's really interesting. You say that? I said because like there's, there's a, there's a knowledge gap, you know, and like the more he would say that, the more I'd be like hmm, and you know. And so it was really that that got me thinking.
Speaker 2:But then there was this piece in the back of my head that I didn't really want to work with dietitians, because my experience is historically like in the space, where dietitians were very opinionated, they were very gregarious, they needed to be heard, they didn't really want to be understood. They were very gregarious, they needed to be heard. They didn't really want to be understood and so for me making that transition was really hard because I had this narrative that I told myself that dietitians were kind of like assholes and like I didn't want really any part of them. If anything, I would try not to call myself a dietitian so I wouldn't be associated with them. And number one that was a really bad attitude. It's kind of like that same attitude that we all have in the beginning of our business that we're not going to hire anybody because they can't do it as good as us. It's kind of that same like narrative. But yeah, it took a lot of like, it took a lot of self-talk to run my first cohort for reimbursement dietitian and like the best like, I realized that, aside from getting married to my husband, like growing reimbursement dietitian was the best thing I ever did. Best thing, hands down, was to create that group. Because what I realized is like, like minds attract other like minds. And I have.
Speaker 2:I have had thousands of dietitians go through my coaching program at this point. I've had thousands of dietitians go through my coaching program at this point and I can say on one finger, like there was one black sheep, everybody else, like, like, are like my family, and most of the dietitians that enrolled in the original versions of my coaching program are still like six, seven years later, like in my, in my mentorships, in my I would love to someday have them come in and take over reimbursement dietitian. So, like, I think like that, like I think the same way. Dietitians tell themselves this narrative about insurance and tell themselves, you know, they build these rumors and myths in an effort to protect themselves from having to take insurance.
Speaker 2:I did that for so long about dietitians. I'm good. I'm good Like I don't need to do that, because then that meant more work, right, that meant I got to build out this whole backend of the program. Doing that was literally the best. Like working with dietitians is literally the best part of best part of my career, best part of my job. But like I almost didn't go that direction, you know, because I didn't think I would really enjoy it, but I love it Like best, best, best part of my day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think you're right, there was a gap and you saw it and I think that's maybe like where the best ideas come from. And clearly you know it was. And now I mean I'm in the insurance credentialing group on Facebook. I mean there's thousands and it's such an active group and you know you've fostered that and you know I love it, I love to just watch Like I love, like I, like I love.
Speaker 2:Now, this is fascinating. So I'm having this dietitian like this very in this. In this dietitian has a very lucrative cash-based practice that I'm talking to in like I can finally say you know what I? You know I said I don't think that you're. I said I don't think your issue is that your, your cash-based product sucks. I think you're now competing with thousands of dietitians who accept insurance.
Speaker 2:Like it's a very, like the paradigm has shifted and like for me to be able to sit back and be like this is bananas. This is not what it was, you know, even five years ago, but it's just like so exciting for me to watch that Like I take so much joy, so much pleasure in watching other dietitians win. I don't care how they win, I don't even care, because people will say to me doesn't that person really know? I don't know? Like I clap for every dietitian. You know what I mean. I don't care how they got where they got, but yeah, it's just incredible. It's so cool to see and it's so cool to see them navigating it, because it's not an easy thing, as you know, when you started four years ago. But I think you buckle in and you just are like I'm in it. I'm in it for the ride.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you learn. I didn't know what a deductible was or a co experience. I said to clients all the time like are you familiar with these terms? Cause I certainly didn't know what they meant.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's, I mean that's, that's, that's all. It is Right, it's like.
Speaker 2:I mean like us in our internship we first started you're like I don't know what I'm doing and then next thing you know you're writing two feed orders without even thinking about it. Yeah, exactly, you're doing TPNs and you're piggybacking fat on the back of a TPN in the NICU and you did it. And I think that's the coolest part about every struggle a dietitian goes through On the other side of that mountain. It's just like you know. It's like it's fascinating. Even when you create a course, like when I created reimbursement diet, it's like. It's like version like 100.0.
Speaker 2:I did the first version of my. You know it sounds like a morbid story, but like my mom was dying and she was in the ICU, and so like I only had a very short period of time this is March of 2020. And so she passed March 3rd of 2020 before the world passed out, passed. You know the. You know everything changed. But like I was in the ICU and so like I couldn't get online right Because you're in the ICU and like I was in like like a bariatric chamber basically, and um, but like I did reimbursement dietitian, as it was like six modules in each video was like three hours long.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and so it's like that was what the original and I did it on Google drive. Now it's like hundreds of hours of really short video, like I did the best I could with what I had at the time. Like I think that that's what's important for dietitians to know like their practice, and they're like 1.0, important for dietitians to know like their practice and they're like 1.0. Like they're gonna sit back and just smile and laugh, like when they get to 10.0 because they're like, oh my gosh, like so I think people need to be able to like high-five themselves for those accomplishments.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you gotta see always I you know, I agree with that like you have to just start somewhere and like do it yeah, throw it, throw it out there, see what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not going to look the same like six months later. But that's the cool thing is, like you don't have to pretend. Like I didn't pretend that this thing was going to be awesome. I was like, okay, guys, like we're going to, you know, and I did one, I did one 60 minute call a month. Now I do like multiple calls per week. It's just like it's just you know what I mean, cause I found that that didn't serve them. Like you know what I mean, you learn what works best for your clients and you make those changes. But yeah, like it's just, it's just funny to see, like those, those second versions or those third versions. I think I think dietitians just need to know like all, like all of business is an experiment.
Speaker 1:I'm going't agree with that. More Well, I feel like we could go on and on talking about all these things, but since we are, you know, getting close to talking for almost an hour, I know you have a lot of so obviously we talked a lot about the Reimbursement Dietitian program you do there, but tell us more any other new offerings that you're kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. So Reimbursement Dietitian is always there. That's a six-month program and the intention of that is to take dietitians from being overwhelmed and uncertain to, you know, confidently billing insurance. So that is a really fun program because I teach them all like the back end of their business. And then I, you know, I also have a membership and so we have 170 dietitians in the membership. Once the dietitians graduate from reimbursing dietitian, they get to go into the membership and that's more higher levels. So we teach them how to scale in there.
Speaker 2:And then what I started to really learn was the girls that started to ask can we do a mastermind for group practice owners? And I was like, absolutely so. Then we started from the membership into a mastermind and then the mastermind I took and I created a whole course on hiring and so I had hired an HR company to teach me human resources and it was like thousands and thousands of dollars and it was really, really expensive. And so you know, I took all of those resources as a next spot for my clients and created a soup to nuts, from creating your vision and your mission all the way to how to fire, what forms need to be filled out and the most important thing, I think, for most dietitians to know and they don't probably know this is that everything I have created has been for my clients. Like I have a cheat sheet that I sell and the cheat sheet was never intended to monetize. I never intended to. I was like cool, like one day I was sitting here I was like can I summarize everything for my current coaching clients? And I was like, wow, like this could be super helpful in like I've sold like 11,000 cheat sheets, like. But it was never and I think, like you had mentioned before and maybe it was before we started recording like yes, that is a passive form of income, but it was never intended to be that way, never intended to be that way. My masterclasses are always for my current clients.
Speaker 2:And then people would say can I come? And I was like, the more the merrier, like everything I have ever done has been for my clients. It has never been in an effort to make money. It was like, okay, cool, like what do you guys need? Like once a quarter. I asked them.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh cool, can you do more? I'm like, yeah, but then the really fun part is that to kind of create. So I really try to create like, almost like life cycle nutrition I do like life cycle of the entrepreneur. So I take them from very, very newbies. You know we have dietitians that are making you know, seven $800,000 on the other side, so we're able to, you know, teach them expand and how to scale. So it's just been amazing. Like I said, I cannot believe I'm saying that because, like I was not, like I said that that was not the direction, like you know, but like, yeah, I love it and I'm sure you do too, as you mentor. Like it's just, it's so different than working with clients, but I, absolutely I cannot imagine my life not working with dietitians.
Speaker 1:I just can't. It's so weird, I know. I mean, I think that's like that's, you know. And coming back to what we were talking about, in the very beginning of like, I never thought I wanted to work with eating disorders because I had my own history with it and I remember like I'm being like that's never going to be it and then I just ended up still like it. Just, all the paths led me here. Yeah, no, then I tried to fight it. Yeah, and I never would have thought I would be a group practice owner and there was always little parts of me that wanted to like give people resources.
Speaker 1:Like, I think, similar to what you said like I'm like there's information out there that I feel like people are just like missing, finding. And then I slowly started, you know, hopping dietitians here and there, and then, yeah, next thing, I know I'm like maybe this is something I really like and, yeah, I feel the same way. So, yeah, I think, like some of the things you were saying, I'm just like not pigeonholing yourself. Is that the same? Like you know, don't box yourself in and just take some chances because, yeah, you'll never know where you'll end up.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and being okay to smash it in order to move forward, right. I think that's where a lot of dietitians kind of get tripped up is like they invested so much in X, y and Z and then this other door opens and they're like eh, like I started off as a general business coach, I thought being a reimbursement coach sounded a lot less sexy than being a high level. I hated being a regular business coach, so that's how I ended up where I ended up. But like smash move, smash, move, right. Like you got to be able to see like the bigger picture and the more people that you can help.
Speaker 1:I think that's what's important yeah, yeah, and yeah, I mean you have, uh, I've, I'm one of those people that have purchased the cheat sheet and I have the newer version of it too, which is actually I was. I had bought it a couple years ago and then you had like updated it and I think that's like yeah, that happens with so many things.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh. Say to people like I wish I would have taken a screenshot of what my website looks like when I first started, because I don't know what it looked like. But you just change, you update you like, provide you know all these things.
Speaker 2:And it's so fun to look back and be like, oh my God, like that's crazy, but I think it's. I can say like rightfully so there is a. You know, there is a rainbow, like there is a rainbow after the rain, you know, yeah totally, totally Well.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about this and you know, what I thought was gonna be a conversation mostly about insurance turned into a conversation about resiliency and building as an entrepreneur, which I think is at the core of it all anyways, because I think so too right, like the information is out there for insurance providers and really the part that's missing sometimes is, yeah, like trust, just giving yourself the grace to like try and fail or make mistakes and learn from them and just keep moving. So thanks for sharing all those nuggets of wisdom.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you for having me. This of wisdom I love it. Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you for having me. This was amazing and I will see you soon.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you, thanks so much Thanks for listening to the RD to CEO podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources mentioned or find more at wwwrdtoceocom. Never miss an episode by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
